Illness/Sickness: Axolotl looks and acts weird - please help!

Hello guys,
we would like some help with Smiley - our axolotl.
some pre-details:
we have a white (not albino) axolotl, almost one and a half years old. we are from Israel, so it is winter time here, and the temperature in the aquarium is kept around 18-19 Celsius. the aquarium is 60X30X30 Cm. we are changing water every week/week and a half. we use power filter (that is situated outside the aquarium), and the water flow is turned towards the aquarium wall (and we put another small tube to reduce the strentgh of the flow). we usually feed Smiley with chicken liver, live small fish (which are smaller than its head) or frozen worms.
Smiley has always been thin (since ever) and with some small black spots on its body (also, since ever).
i don't know the values of the water quality and stuff like this, but in the last time we checked (about almost half a year ago) the water quality was very good (with the same treatment described above). every time we change water, we add anti-chlorain stuff and some "good" bacteria.

the bad news:
the problem began around 6 days ago. we feed the axolotl with some 3 live fish (one about a week ago, and another two the day after). since then he didn't eat anything (refuse to eat), it seems like he has lost a bit of control over its body (for example, it's hard for him to move back on its stomach if flipped on the back) and he keeps staying with a open mouth. also, it seems its throat is swollen, although after checking, we don't see anything inside its mouth. more than that, he looks super pale, and it seems like he lost its gills. i mean, he still has the "main" gills, but i don't see all the small ones that usually come out of the main ones.

we don't know what to do. after reading some posts in the forum and in the main website, we meanwhile firdged Smiley in a 6-7 Celsius temperautre, and we are waiting for further instructions. he is the in fridge for almost 5 hours now, and he looks a bit a bit better, but i'm not sure.

please help!!!

Gil

Have his legs and abdomen become swollen as well as his neck? If so it is most likely bloat and he needs to be seen by a vet. Bloat is almost impossible to treat without the aid of a professional. Has anyone accidentally sprayed something in the room? Such as deodorant, perfume, air freshener, etc that would contaminate his water? It may be worth testing the water quality in case food has become trapped causing an ammonia spike. Are you able to buy earthworms for him to eat? They would be a better alternative to his current diet. Have you seen him go to the toilet in the last week? Sorry for all the questions.

why sorry? you are helping
only its neck is a bit swollen than usual - the rest (legs/hands/abdomen) is the same.
we didn't spray anthing in the room, and actually, beside the time he was fed with the live fish, the lid of the aquarium was closed all the time (we feed him in a net).
as for trapped food, again, we didn't see anything inside his mouth, and the fish were very small.
today, right before we took him to the fridge, he was pooping.
as for worms, unfortunately, we can buy only frozen ones.

new thoughts?

thanks,
Gil

by the way, i confused between earthworms and bloodworms - i meant frozen bloodworms. i should check for earthworms though.

Hmm very strange. Are you able to get some pictures of him and upload them to the thread? Preferably one from above and from the side. A close picture of his neck may help as well. Are you able to check your water quality at the moment? I asked about trapped food as I thought it could be hiding somewhere inside the tank. For example in the substrate or in a hide. This is what could cause an ammonia spike. Sorry for the confusion

i don't have any accessories to check water quality and won't have until Monday at least.
as for food in the aquarium - there is nothing, at least not something in a size that you can easily see. there is gravel in teh aquarium, but it is actually big stones, so it's easy to see between them, and anyway.

here are some photos taken from the tub he is in at the moment (being fridged and all...).

by the way - it seems important to mention that the small black dots around his face were there since ever, but the rest (such as along his body) were not!

He's a very light luecistic (the name for his coloration) and the black dots on his face are most likely freckles. I've experienced freckles appearing out of nowhere so this could be the case along his body but it may also be something to do with the water in his tank. If you can get a test kit on monday (especially to test the ammonia levels) I would definitely recommend it, so that we can see if it could be contributing to his current condition. The shape of his abdomen concerns me. What is the gravel like in his tank? Is it regular aquarium gravel? Are the individual pieces of stone smaller than his head? If so he may have an impaction, which could explain the lack of appetite. Sand or bare bottom tanks are by far the easiest and safest bases for axolotls to be on. You're doing all that you can to help him thus far. He is very underweight. If you're able to buy some earthworms, these will also help him gain weight.

Your axolotl looks emaciated in case you havent noticed, its lethargy is probably down to the fact that it is starving to death. Read the appropritae threads on diet and pull your finger out ,the state of that axolotl is a disgrace.

That axolotl looks dead. It's emaciated, like it's been starving. Does it even move? There are so many things wrong with that that I'm not sure where to start. That's not just 6 days of not eating. That's starving for months. I'm not surprised he's not eating now. He's probably about to die.

I cant get worms all the time, so I have build a wormery so I can give him fresh live ones as worms breed fast. So 50 can turn to 100's in a week I think and I have only had mine a month. He looks bigger than that one and you should always TEST YOUR water as spikes can happen. I was told frozen worms don't contain the nutriance they need. Please keep us updated

In Gils defence (if you can call it that) I have seen much unhealthier axolotls recover from such a situation. Some of which I have rehomed and bettered myself. I don't think it's fair to outwardly say "your axolotl is going to die". They have come here to seek advice, not be abused. They were probably given false information to begin with like so many have and will continue to be given. I know everyone here cares for them, very much so, but I think there are better ways of displaying it. I have already given the advice I deem necessary, to the best of my knowledge. In this case he needs fattening up and tank water tested as soon as possible to try and find a solid conclusion to the problem.

NeekaLovesYou said:

In Gils defence (if you can call it that) I have seen much unhealthier axolotls recover from such a situation. Some of which I have rehomed and bettered myself.

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The problem is that they've let it get to this point in the first place. They joined this site two years ago. They have all the information available to them – and they've never noticed that their axolotl is starving? That is clear neglect. This isn't someone who has received an axolotl like this - they've made it like this. I don't think they deserve any defending.

I'm harsh, sure. But I did not see in your response to the photos any mention of the fact that the axolotl is completely emaciated. You just said it needs to gain weight. Don't patty cake the problem. That does no service to the animal to let the owner think that they can keep up the same feeding methods and expect results.

When you get a pet you always do what you are meant too which is water changes, water tests, daily feeding, daily cleaning, You always do it, other wise what's the point in getting the pet, I know I'm new to having axle, but I know I'm never going to miss any water changes or feed . I came here with lots of questions and I still have lots and everything people have told me I have done or taken into account .Like when I got mealworms I asked if they where ok as a staple diet but was told they are ok now and then as they can cause bloating. So I have given them to a mate who has a dragon. I have even spent £500 on a new tank for axle so he can have a good life so far in a month I have spent £700 on stuff just for axle (yes me other half is annoyed and my bills are late but pets ALWAYS come first (second if you have kids)

esn said:

The problem is that they've let it get to this point in the first place. They joined this site two years ago. They have all the information available to them – and they've never noticed that their axolotl is starving? That is clear neglect. This isn't someone who has received an axolotl like this - they've made it like this. I don't think they deserve any defending.

I'm harsh, sure. But I did not see in your response to the photos any mention of the fact that the axolotl is completely emaciated. You just said it needs to gain weight. Don't patty cake the problem. That does no service to the animal to let the owner think that they can keep up the same feeding methods and expect results.

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I told the owner in my first response that the axolotls diet needs changing. This was even before pictures were displayed.

I agree that it is nothing but cruel to own a pet & not do absolutely everything required to keep it healthy & happy!

Aquariums require testing as it is a fine tuned chemistry we are aiming for - healthy water sustaining life. To not test water at least is lazy & cruel. If you can't afford to do it right buy a teddy bear instead of a living creature!

I'm saddened that this poor axie looks like this & it's sadder that as a member of this forum the owner hasn't learned how to properly care for the axie through reading others posts. Surely seeing pics of healthy axies made you do a double take when you saw the terrible state your own was in

I hope you listen & learn to the people here & start testing your water regularly as well as feeding the proper foods. I hope that your axie still has a chance to recover & that you haven't left it too late!

I've always been a "harsh but fair" person, but when it comes down to mistreating children or animals then I find it hard to hold my tongue. I don't believe in Molly coddling to make people feel OK when what they are doing us serious neglect. The situation with this axie is dire & the sooner this owner wakes up & starts doing the right thing the better!



<3 >o_o< <3

How to make a worm farm. - YouTube
Here's a link that shows you how to build a wormery I found and found extremely useful and have built one exactly the same
all you need is :-
4 boxes the same size
1 lid to fit the top box
1 brick
hessian sack/ cardboard
and a butt tap
drill and a drill bit and 1 that cuts 1" holes

Which you can get all off ebay and you can get 50 worms off the net for not even £2 off ebay
So no excuses about not been able to get fresh worms, I would find my own if I had a garden and wasn't disabled and when the weather warms up a bit I'm sending the kids out to get some from the park.
Hell, I made one and I'm disabled.

Just had a thought, what if its morphing as it can happen. So I looked on the forums and found this: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...ussion/65868-what-signs-axolotl-morphing.html

I know I can be jumping the gun with this but it is possible and known to happen even though its not often.

This is the first post in it so let us know if any of these signs are relevant, so we can rule it out as morphing is stressful and may cause it to lose weight and gills, also its in the fridge so it may slow it down or not show things if it is morphing I hope this helps:

Behaviour wise, inappetance, struggling to get out of the water or trying to get exposed out of the water.

Conformation wise, eyelids forming, receding gills, receding fins, legs become more muscular, skin texture changes, body shape becomes more 'terrestrial', head shape also becomes more tapered in appearance.

Spontaneous morphs are extremely rare. In most cases, it is poor environmental or nutritional conditions that mimic morphing. These are easily rectified.

If it is indeed a true case of morphing, you would have to change the tank set up to a vivarium suited for terrestrial axies.

Nemesea said:

just had a thought what if its morphine as it can happen so i looked on the forums and found this: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...ussion/65868-what-signs-axolotl-morphing.html

i know i can be jumping the gun with this but it is possible and known to happen even tho its not often

this is the first post in it so let us know if any of these signs are relevant so we can rule it out as morphing is stressful and may cause it to lose weight and gills also its in the fridge so it may slow it down or not show things if it is morphing i hope this helps:

Behaviour wise, inappetance, struggling to get out of the water or trying to get exposed out of the water.

Conformation wise, eyelids forming, receding gills, receding fins, legs become more muscular, skin texture changes, body shape becomes more 'terrestrial', head shape also becomes more tapered in appearance.

Spontaneous morphs are extremely rare. In most cases, it is poor environmental or nutritional conditions that mimic morphing. These are easily rectified.

If it is indeed a true case of morphing, you would have to change the tank set up to a vivarium suited for terrestrial axies.

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No, its starving to death. The pic is of one of my A.andersoni who morphed, the process looks the same for A.mexicanum, the difference is clear

It's not morphing, it's starving and dying.