UK laws regarding European newts

Can any advise on anyway I can put the correct paperwork in place for European newts(Canifex and Karelinii) I purchased without documents?.
I see plenty for sale without this and would like to be able to elevate mine from the "black market"status they currently have.
Do we need a licence to keep these ?as no-one seems to ask for it if you want to buy them.
I did look at the Natural England site but it seems more geared at protecting populations from disasters and there does not seem to be much mention of keeping them purely as a hobby.
Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Simon, I think what you need to know is covered in the following thread: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1-gen...egislation-regarding-wc-european-animals.html

I am looking to gety some cb Triturus marmoratus next year, i apparently need a licence to keep them , is this correct ?

xxianxx said:

I am looking to gety some cb Triturus marmoratus next year, i apparently need a licence to keep them , is this correct ?

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No, unless you buy wild collected animals which do require a licence.

Really?? They require a licence for wild T.marmoratus? I don´t see how that makes any sense since any wild collected T.marmoratus surely must be illegal (outside of research permits). Nobody in their entire range is allowing for legal collections (again, outside of research).

Thanks for the reply Mark
So if I sell them all I can give as proof that they are captive bred is a hand written receipt?
It sounds a bit like chancing your luck and not really being able to "do the right thing"if you want to keep these newts.Where as European keepers seem to have a system in place.

Caleb's posts in that thread are excellent so there's no point me trying to regurgitate it. Before this law wild collected annex IV newts became legal once they landed in the UK, now they don't. In reality the law is there to help prosecute people suspected of trading in wild newts, not an excuse to knock on pet newt keeper's doors looking for paperwork.

Rodrigo; I think this essentially makes most of the T. marmoratus collected after the 1994 law was made technically illegal, unless keepers got the license during the 3 month grace period once the new law came in. Also, it is not clear about the offspring of illegal animals. My guess would be that those would become legal as they themselves were not illegally collected.

I don't think it was really intended to retrospectively address past 'smuggling' (inverted commas as once the arrived in the UK they became above board), but to address the loophole that allowed continued smuggling.

All of this is academic of course, as I don't think these laws will ever be properly enforced. Driving through Dover or the other ferry ports, stating that you have no animals would be believed unless you have them crawling on your lap or there is a tip off. Once in the UK, breaches are ignored by the police; I posted about one case of illegal marmoratus that I tried to report...neither Natural England, nor Greater Manchester Police knew what to do or who was responsible for dealing with it. After contacting the local police authority for the area the shop was in, I was told that that division does not have an animal control officer (or job title to that effect) and so they couldn't respond to the incident. I assume that they could borrow the next authority along's officer if there was a shop selling rhino horn.,..

I hope I'm wrong and at least commercial dealing in wild Annex IV newts is dealt with...

C