Illness/Sickness: Black cloaca on a leucistic and growing veins from his gills

Hi everyone,

I’ve had Oxo for about 4 years and am his third owner. I think he’s about 10 years old now. He lives in a 60x30 cm tank on his own with a piece of slate covering the floor, a plastic hamster house and various plastic/fabric plants, shells and big stones to clamber on. He has a Fluval One Plus filter, mainly eats pellets, with occasional bloodworms, shrimps or small bits of beef, and has a 30% water change every week. I use dechlorinated tap water, which I also leave to stand for a few days beforehand, with a bit of start-up bacteria added.

His tank is 19 degrees centigrade right now and I keep it roughly at that temperature in the summer as well by floating bottles of frozen water in there. I just did a strip test (his last water change was 4 days ago) and have:

NO3 50 mg/l
NO2 1 mg/l
GH 16 dH
KH 20 dH
PH 8
Cl 0.8 mg/l

Oxo’s gills have always looked a bit iffy (see picture 1), which I put down to his previous owner using untreated tap water, but a couple of years ago he started to grow what look like extra veins from them as well and has lost some of the filaments (see pictures 2 and 3). He also has some black stuff (sorry to be vague) on his cloaca (see picture 4), which has recently also appeared in two spots on his back and on his lower lip. The spread of the black stuff varies, but his skin is much rougher there, so I think it is affecting his slime layer.

Is this a bacterial infection? (He poos only about once a fortnight, so I wonder if it is a side effect of constipation?) Is what has happened to his gills common in older axolotls (a work colleague mentioned the same happened to his pet sometime before it died) or are they getting burned* and trying to repair themselves? (*Could it be an ammonia or nitrite build-up, even though he eats all of his food, I clean away his poos straight away and there are no live plants in the tank?)

Does anyone have any suggestions about what I could try to help him, please? Neither issue seems to have affected his behaviour or appetite, which is why I have not posted for help sooner, but I am concerned that I am doing something wrong or missing something that is hurting him.

Thanks for your help!

Beth

PS – The more I read on this forum, the more I think ammonia is probably to blame for his gills as I don’t have a test for it. Does anyone have a recommendation for a test brand and a way to reduce it, please?

I'm getting a sense of deja-vu on that cloaca... There was a thread fairly recently with a person who had an axie with a cloaca looking not dis-similar in it's wrinkly appearance and discolouration. I'll put the link below. (Note that cloaca looks much worse than yours)...

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...-sick-axolotl/84930-abnormal-cloaca-area.html

and also this thread

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...86559-cluster-little-bumps-near-back-leg.html

Might be worth looking into these?

That first one is utterly terrifying.

Pardon me while I have nightmares for the rest of my life. And put my axolotl in a sterile bubble. Forever.

Yeah, like Jane said, there was a thread on here earlier (I think it was this summer) with a very similar issue. I think the conclusion was parasites. Definitely worth looking into.

EmbryH said:

Pardon me while I have nightmares for the rest of my life. And put my axolotl in a sterile bubble. Forever.

Click to expand...

well I'm certainly not gonna click those links then lol

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback. I've got in touch with a vet I found on the list posted a few a days ago (http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...canum/f58-sick-axolotl/75182-looking-vet.html).

In the meantime, does anyone have any thoughts on his gills, please? I've found a couple of similar cases:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...8-sick-axolotl/87873-funny-looking-gills.html

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...where-his-fluffy-gills-have-gone-axolotl.html

and asked for advice from their 'postees', but haven't heard anything back yet.

Beth

I have the red 'worm' like things on my axolotl's gills. they're completely normal and are just a piece of tissue containing a blood vessel (if you break one, which I did by accident one tank-cleaning episode) it will bleed profusely!

It's not any kind of parasite or infection or anything, so don't worry about the red gill things.

Ah! That's a relief - thanks for letting me know! I have spent a lot of time trying to find pictures of similar gills and had convinced myself they must be abnormal as I could find so little in comparison. I've been thinking nitrate/nitrite/ammonia burns or too much/too little oxygen. The more recent loss of filaments is a worry to me still, but I feel much better for your reassurance.

I'm taking Oxo to the vet on Friday, so hopefully he'll have some suggestions about how to deal with his blackened cloaca.

Thanks again,

Beth

Any updates on Oxo? How's he doing?

I hope everything went ok at the vets.

Hello!

The black stuff comes off so easily if it's rubbed carefully that it might just be algae! It's possible that his age (10) is affecting his immune system and slime coat, so his skin is rougher there and gives it something to stick to. I'm trying him on some different food pellets (Novo Lotl instead of catfish pellets) and Stress Coat with aloe vera in for his skin. He doesn't appear to have parasites, but I'm trying to get a faeces sample and will take that to the vet to check too.

I'm trying to keep on top of his nitrite and ammonia levels better by doing tests more regularly and using Ammo-Lock, as well as the dechlorinator and start-up bacteria I was using before. The vet suggested I take water samples from different stages through the week and get them professionally tested at an aquarium shop, but I've not looked into that yet.

So far I've not noticed any change - the algae(?) grows back again after a couple of days, his gills look the same and he spits out the new pellets! - but I'll persevere. He's been stubbornly crossing his legs since visiting the vets, so I have not managed to get a sample yet. I check his tank every day and know he's been at least twice, but he's stomped on it before I've got to it and I've only seen the dispersed bits on the bottom afterwards!

It was reassuring that I don't seem to be doing anything I shouldn't to Oxo. It's a shame that he's not as pretty as he used to be, but as long as he's not suffering at all, I'll keep trying to improve his water conditions and we'll see.

Beth

I don't recommend using Ammo-lock. This will actually cause more problems in cycling your tank. Basically, it starves your beneficial bacteria.

The best way to deal with less than ideal water quality is through more frequent water changes.

I doubt the black stuff is algae. Even if it's rubbing off easily, it could be parasites. If it keeps coming back, you should get it consulted by a vet.

Also, ammo-lock and stress-coat both contain a dechlorinator, so you're redundantly dechlorinating your tank, and probably over-doing it.

Dear Kaysie,

Thanks for the feedback about Ammo-Lock, but the ammonia tests I've done on my tap water show that it has ammonia in too and I don't have access to another water source (bottled water is often high in heavy metals, isn't it?). I get lower ammonia results a couple of days after I have done a water change with Ammo-Lock than I do on water straight from my tap - although I recognise this could be the result of bacterial activity breaking it down too. I have stopped putting the extra dechlorinator in and am trying adding more start-up bacteria.

Oxo has been checked by a vet (please see earlier posts) and the algae theory is his. I would like him to be tested for parasites, but I still haven't been able to get a faeces sample from him.

Please let me know if you have any other suggestions. I welcome the input.

Beth

I have a trace of ammonia (0.25) in my tap water too. If you continue doing daily water changes it keeps the ammonia down. Obviously there will still be a trace but once your tank has cycled the filter should remove that ammonia trace from fresh water changes in no time. What's the ammonia reading of your tap water?
Using ammo-lock will never help your tanks cycle. If the trace is low in your tap water, it's probably best to ditch the ammo-lock and try to cycle it naturally. if it's already cycled then my guess is it could crash the cycle?

Has the cloaca cleared at all? I still think it looks very similar to this case. If it carries on getting worse I would try get a second opinion. The sooner it's sorted, the better
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...-sick-axolotl/84930-abnormal-cloaca-area.html

Hi,

I stopped using Ammo-Lock, but visited a specialist aquatic centre just before Easter to ask for advice about Oxo and was told that it shouldn't affect the beneficial bacteria in his tank, so am still uncertain about the best way forward about that. Anyway, as Oxo had not been eating properly for quite a while and therefore not producing a faeces sample that I could take to the vet for parasite tests, I thought I'd try a course of weakened Melafix in case he was generally feeling poorly, causing his lack of appetite, and try him on some live food (mealworms, earthworms, frogspawn from a friend's pond [which I washed in chlorinated water before putting in his tank]). The blackness on his cloaca did seem to improve and with a great deal of patience, he did eventually get the hang of taking the worms and ate at least a few small tadpoles once they hatched, but still did not poo.

I recently went on holiday for just over a week and my mum came over to try feeding him and to change his water. Although he didn't eat anything and still hadn't pooed, Mum noticed Oxo looked fatter, so we were hopeful that he was improving, and he was very active on Wednesday night, which encouraged me. However, when I cleaned his tank and did a water change on Thursday, I realised he wasn't moving at all, not flicking his gills, and completely unresponsive to movement or touch. I left him until yesterday to be sure (he lived alone) and he has definitely died. I think the 'fatness' was bloating, so probably organ failure or perhaps the horrible virus that I've seen others posting about recently. I am very sad to lose him, disappointed that I couldn't work out what was wrong with him, and worried that he might have been riddled with parasites or picked up something awful from the live food, but I guess I'll never know.

Sorry for posting bad news, but I thought people might be interested in having the update, and I wanted to say thanks again to everyone who gave me advice and food for thought.

Beth

That's too bad, Beth. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry for your loss

So sorry, Beth.

Sorry you lost him