Question: Cycling with and without axolotl and levels

Ok, I will admit that I have rather blindly (as it turns out) purchased an axolotl and now have some questions. Please note that this is my first axolotl and fish tank (was told that axolotls were a beginner level which I really don't think they are).

Firstly the stats:
1 x 16cm/7.5inch axolotl
10 gallon bare bottom tank with one hide and plastic plants
1x in tank filter with outflow bar facing wall
1 x small air stone
I have a master test kit
Baseline numbers for tap water are all fine
Temp 20-21 (yes I know I need to get the down and am working on that)

I got Billy on Sunday - 5 days ago - and put him in the conditioned but uncycled tank.
He ate 3 medium compost worms (cut up) but bought them back up, alive, 30 mintues later. He has accepted no food since.

Within 2 days he started to show signs of fungus (probably why he isn't eating, plus the water temp). It took me a couple of days to figure out what was happening and diagnose. He has now had a salt bath and is in the fridge where he will remain for the next few days.

So ..... my questions/concerns relate to what do I do with the tank to continue the cycling process whilst i have Billy in the fridge.

Firstly these are the stats.

Reading taken after a 30% water change yesterday with Billy in the tank
Ph 7.6
Amonia .75
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2

Reading taken this afternoon after Billy had been out of the tank for a couple of hours (no water change yet)
Ph 7.5
Amonia 1
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2

Questions:

1. There are a lot of posts/answers saying "make sure the levels don't get too high". What does "too high" actually mean and do my levels fall into that category? I'm happy to be refered to a specific site.

2. What should I do now that Billy in is the fridge to maintain the cycling process?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Also a couple of other things.

1. Are compost worms OK as food.

2. I have tried to feed billy (yes, I know that he won't be that hungry as he is in the fridge but thought I would give it a go as he hasn't eat for at least 5 days). Firstly a couple of pellets - no go. Then gave Billy an earthworm (from the pet shop). It was about 1 to 1.5 inches. He snapped it up but then spat it out a couple of times. I then took the worm out and cut it in half. He did the same thing. I've left the worms in there and have put him back in the fridge. (yes I will remove them in a little later if he hasn't eaten them). Is this normal feeding behaviour?

Thanks again

Have attached a photo of the tank and of Billy.

Just checked on Billy. He has eaten one pellet and half a worm. :happy: I'm a bit happier but am looking forward to any/all advice.

Could there be a chance he ate a stone at the shop ??, I had water condition problems but my axols never went off their food

Billy is a cutie

The tank looks good but a few live plant will help with the tank getting established faster - the more surfaces to grow good bacteria the better plus they offer cover for the axie

It seems that not eating after relocating is common & unless they're desperately skinny it's nothing to panic about - the fact he's now eaten is a very good sign.

The temp at 21 isn't a need to panic either - anything up to 23 is OK, not ideal but not catastrophic - try aiming a fan (any fan) at the tank surface & leave the lid slightly ajar - it can take a couple of degrees off the water temp. If it goes to 24 then freak out & freeze 4-5 2L bottles & float them at the top - replacing when half melted to avoid big temp fluctuations

Also when you decide he's ready to come out of the fridge (well done for spitting fungus & doing the salt bath) make sure the transition back to tank temp is slow - using chiller bags (there's a great sticky on that too)

I'm sure others will help to describe the levels & what is normal & what levels constitute a concern - I'm still learning that too. My tanks are both cycled & my ammonia is 0 but nitrates vary - water changes keep the nitrate down easily once established.

I'm sure with a mum like you Billy is going to be just fine



<3 >o_o< <3

Ammonia has no 'safe' level, so it should be 0.

Obviously, it's more dangerous at higher levels, but there's not a simple answer to when it becomes really dangerous, as it depends on Ph and temperature as well as things like the age and health of the 'lotl (I'm not sure if studies have been done on 'lotl babies, but even a very low ammonia level can cause major development problems for some baby fish).

2mg/l shouldn't have done any serious harm in that time though, so don't panic!

Nitrates aren't dangerous to a much higher level- again, I'm not sure if any specific axy research has been done, but for most fish at least, even 50mg/l isn't actually dangerous over the short term- generally below around 20mg/l is best though. Your nitrate level is nothing to worry about.

Are you testing for nitrites as well?

From the pic your axolotl looks under weight, not eating appears to have been a problem for a while rather than just since you had him. A common cause of weight loss is gravel impaction, was he kept on gravel at the pet shop?

Jennadenny said:

Could there be a chance he ate a stone at the shop ??, I had water condition problems but my axols never went off their food

Click to expand...

Thanks for your responce Jenna, The tank was bare bottomed. We think Billy has pooed as we noticed a little black tube on the bottom of the tank that was about the lengh of a grain of rice but very thin. Does this sound like poop to you?:happy:

Nikki71 said:

Billy is a cutie

The tank looks good but a few live plant will help with the tank getting established faster - the more surfaces to grow good bacteria the better plus they offer cover for the axie

It seems that not eating after relocating is common & unless they're desperately skinny it's nothing to panic about - the fact he's now eaten is a very good sign.

The temp at 21 isn't a need to panic either - anything up to 23 is OK, not ideal but not catastrophic - try aiming a fan (any fan) at the tank surface & leave the lid slightly ajar - it can take a couple of degrees off the water temp. If it goes to 24 then freak out & freeze 4-5 2L bottles & float them at the top - replacing when half melted to avoid big temp fluctuations

Also when you decide he's ready to come out of the fridge (well done for spitting fungus & doing the salt bath) make sure the transition back to tank temp is slow - using chiller bags (there's a great sticky on that too)

I'm sure others will help to describe the levels & what is normal & what levels constitute a concern - I'm still learning that too. My tanks are both cycled & my ammonia is 0 but nitrates vary - water changes keep the nitrate down easily once established.

I'm sure with a mum like you Billy is going to be just fine



<3 >o_o< <3

Click to expand...

Thanks Niki, we though he was rather cute and unique as we had never seen one with spots.

Thanks for all your advice. We will get some plants and a fan today and will look for that sticky regarding moving him back to his tank.

Hamamelis said:

Ammonia has no 'safe' level, so it should be 0.


Are you testing for nitrites as well?

Click to expand...

Hi Hamamelis

thanks for the information, it has relieved some of my STRESS.

Yes we are testing for nitrites and so far they are 0.

HI xxianxx

Thanks for responding. The tank bottom was bare and we think he may have pooped but we don't really know what axi poop look like.

Will offer him small regular feeds to try and fatten him up but I realise that will probably be unlikely as he is in the fridge.

This might be a really DUMB question, but I will ask it anyway.

Would it be beneficial to the tank cycling process to tip some/all of the water that billy is in whilst in the fridge into the tank?

Nikki71 said:

The tank looks good but a few live plant will help with the tank getting established faster - the more surfaces to grow good bacteria the better plus they offer cover for the axie



<3 >o_o< <3

Click to expand...

Live plants will slow down the cycle, more ornaments like hides etc. will give more area for bacteria to grow, however they do colonise mainly in the filter

Hey there, welcome to axolotl keeping
Your tank once cycled should be at
ammonia: 0
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate anywhere from 0-40 is generally accepted

Cycling will take anywhere from 4-8 weeks, unless you add nitrifying bacteria like Dr Tim's One and Only. It's much easier to do an axolotl-less cycle, so for the first few days add the dirty water from the fridge to the tank until your ammonia gets to about 1.00-2.00ppm then stop adding the water from the fridge and do daily changes until you start to see the ammonia levels fall, you see 0 nitrites and get a nitrate reading.

He's very thin, try feeding him whole worms, start off with one and see if he will take them. If not you can leave them (the worms) in water for a while and eventually they will die.

Good luck

Olivia97 said:

Live plants will slow down the cycle, more ornaments like hides etc. will give more area for bacteria to grow, however they do colonise mainly in the filter

Click to expand...

Oh, OK. will get a few more ornaments to increase the surface area.

Thanks

So, my idea of adding the 'dirty' fridge water wasn't so dumb. PHEW :happy:

thank you for the advice on the levels. will work on them whilst giving Billy the 'cold' treatment. Unfortunately I saw this post after I had already done a salt bath and turfed out the dirty water.

Will give billy some more worms now that he is settled after the water change. Hopefully he will gobble them up and put on some weight

thanks again for your advice

Billy hasn't eaten since yesterday afternoon and then it was only half a worm and one small pellet.

I tried whole worms of various sizes as well as pellets - no good. I hope he eats soon.

We did two salt baths today. This mornings one was really encouraging as there was significantly less than the first bath though I was surprised that there was still quite a lot in this evenings bath. I had assumed that there would not be as much. Oh well, I'll just keep going until its all cleared up.

Will try cut worms tomorrow.

Stay tuned.

It's not unusual for axies not to eat while in the fridge. Try feeding him daily, but don't be discouraged if he refuses.

Try feeding before the salt bath, as he'll be less stressed than after.

Thanks Kaysie. I did feed him this morning. I just popped two pellets and one whole worm and 1 cut in half into his container and left him too it. When I checked 2 hours later I was relieved to see that he had eaten 1.5 worms. Perhaps he is shy and doesn't like an audience.

We have given him a salt bath this arvo (only going to do one today) and will feed again tonight.

He is REALLY thin and he needs to eat. I also need to check that he is pooping. still not sure if he is as I think that some of the dirt is from the worms passing dirt in the water.

sigh.