Giant Chinese Salamanders

Deac77 · Feb 17, 2013

First forgive me if this is the wrong place just thought I'd view your opinion on this

So the giant Chinese are endangered right and are being hybridized with Japanese giants and when they find these hybrids they cull them off. The Chinese is considered a delicacy so my question is if these are cross breeding in the wild why not capture the hybrids and serve those as a meal and have them reproduce in captivity instead of the pure bloods.

Also on a random side note I would love to own one of the hybrids (Would love a pure blood but its wrong in my view to take away from the already low amount if fresh blood in the wild)

FrogEyes · Feb 18, 2013

Both species are endangered, and it is my understanding that it is primarily the Chinese species being eaten primarily by Chinese cultures. A.davidianus is being captive bred in a variety of color strains already. My knowledge of the hybrids is that they occur in the wild in Japan. I see no advantage to either encouraging consumption, or to maintaining hybrids, since as far as I can tell, pure captive-breds are available and illegal consumption continues [allowing for "laundering"].

Deac77 · Feb 18, 2013

I'm usually way against hybrids personally (although that's very hypocritical of me my tegu is a hybrid but my only one lol) just thought of they used the hybrids for food we could spare the pure bloods haha!

FrogEyes · Feb 18, 2013

The counter to that is that supplying the food demand necessitates either wild harvest which is unsustainable, or captive breeding. If you're going to captive-breed endangered species, for consumption or otherwise, why expend the effort on hybrids when you could dedicate the same resources to pure species? I would not suggest consuming OR exterminating the hybrids [except perhaps in the wild], because ultimately they could be all that remains of one or both species, and in that sense, a hybrid is better than nothing.

The argument is probably little different from elephant ivory: if you allow the legal sale of existing stocks of ivory, you encourage further poaching and allow for laundering of poached products which are indistinguishable from stockpiles [mammoth tusk is identifiable in comparison, and thus legal].

ivanli · Aug 28, 2013

There are thousands of Chinese giant salamander breeding farms in my hometown; millions of giant salamanders in their breeding fields, we have known well how to simulate wild environment for captive breeding giant salamanders, so the giant salamanders reproduce quickly. It has become the most popular culture industry in my hometown.

Neotenic_Jaymes · Aug 28, 2013

What's the name of your hometown?

achiinto · Aug 28, 2013

From the last time I read, a professor in China has figured out how to captive bred Chinese giant salamander in thousands for human consumption. So this is not a news anymore and the species is probably only endangered in wild. The hybrid occurred in Japan wild and is unnatural. So keeping them in in pet trade is probably not a good idea as it could risk reintroducing hybrid animal back to wild. Both Chinese giant salamander and the hybrid are probably considered as invasive species in Japan, as competition to the Japanese species for the limited resources available to it.

By he way, last time I checked, you can order Chinese Giant Salamander from china on Alibaba website. I don't know how it works, and you probably need to do all the documents dealing with endangered species import.

ivanli · Aug 28, 2013

Neotenic_Jaymes said:
What's the name of your hometown?

My hometown is MianXian County, a county under HanZhong City, Shaanxi Province. There are ten counties in HanZhong, You could see the giant salamander breeding farms around all the mountain rivers/streams in HanZhong

ivanli · Aug 29, 2013

achiinto said:
From the last time I read, a professor in China has figured out how to captive bred Chinese giant salamander in thousands for human consumption. So this is not a news anymore and the species is probably only endangered in wild. The hybrid occurred in Japan wild and is unnatural. So keeping them in in pet trade is probably not a good idea as it could risk reintroducing hybrid animal back to wild. Both Chinese giant salamander and the hybrid are probably considered as invasive species in Japan, as competition to the Japanese species for the limited resources available to it.

By he way, last time I checked, you can order Chinese Giant Salamander from china on Alibaba website. I don't know how it works, and you probably need to do all the documents dealing with endangered species import.

We are breeding natural pure Chinese giant salamander, not hybrid species, we just simulate wild living environment for salamanders, and they will reproduce naturally, so I don’t think they are invasive species.

jasper408 · Aug 29, 2013

achiinto said:
By he way, last time I checked, you can order Chinese Giant Salamander from china on Alibaba website. I don't know how it works, and you probably need to do all the documents dealing with endangered species import.

They are only selling the meat, unfortunately.

FrogEyes · Aug 29, 2013

ivanli said:
We are breeding natural pure Chinese giant salamander, not hybrid species, we just simulate wild living environment for salamanders, and they will reproduce naturally, so I don’t think they are invasive species.

The post you're responding to is specifically about Japan, where A.davidianus IS an invasive species. Because it uses the same habitats as A.japonicus, it now competes and interbreeds with the latter in its natural habitats. The resulting hybrids are also then competitors and invaders. In China, this is not likely to be a problem, because there is little or no motivation or opportunity to import A.japonicus.

Despite listing online, you cannot import Andrias, alive or dead. They are CITES 1 listed, which means that you require both a CITES export permit, and THEN a CITES import permit. Even if you get the export permit, the United States and many other countries will NOT issue the required import permit for "pet" or "food" purposes. Unless you are operating a zoo or research facility and can demonstrate legitimate uses, these animals will be considered "pets".

ivanli · Aug 31, 2013

In my hometown, the number of Chinese giant salamander in wilderness is also increasing continuously, because there are so many breeding fields, and some salamanders could get out of the farms and return to the wilderness, on the other hand, government has created some reserve area to protect wild giant salamanders. It’s more common to find giant salamander in wilderness than decade ago.

xxianxx · Aug 31, 2013

ivanli said:
In my hometown, the number of Chinese giant salamander in wilderness is also increasing continuously, because there are so many breeding fields, and some salamanders could get out of the farms and return to the wilderness, on the other hand, government has created some reserve area to protect wild giant salamanders. It’s more common to find giant salamander in wilderness than decade ago.

One of the benefits of people eating animals is that they generally do not go extinct if farmed.

dennis · Sep 1, 2013

I don't care how impractical the set up. When they become legally available in the USA I'm working with them. They are bad to the bone. I really don't see a problem getting Cites clearance to ship, receive, and legally own in the future if such large obviously cb populations are established and easy to verify. It should only be a matter of paper work eventually. gonna start saving up the piggy bank....

ivanli · Sep 3, 2013

ivanli-albums-my-chinese-giant-salamander-picture30168-imag0646.jpg

click link below for [FONT=&quot]Giant salamander’s pictures[/FONT]
Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Forum - ivanli's Album: My Chinese giant salamander

Jay Redbond · Sep 4, 2013

Hello Ivanli,

This interests me somewhat as I went and did CGS survey work this year with ZSL in Fanjingshan national nature reserve. We were training students and professors from a number of institutes across china. Follow link for more details. EDGE Blog » Field survey workshop for the Chinese giant salamander in Fanjingshan

Are they actually breeding them naturally because I was under the impression even in Xian that they are using hormones. It doesn't stack up to me because there is still illegal poaching going on as we found evidence of that while do the training. So if they are breeding them so well why are they still worth 3000-4000yuan per kilo and why do they need to catch wild ones?

I will be over in China for three months hopefully next year organising training and surveys of these amazing animals. We should catch up while I am there I will be in your province at some point.

Kind Regards
Jay

dennis · Sep 4, 2013

awesome..... thanks! I'm certain we all would love to see more pictures of your set up.
What do the larvae look like? For some reason these salamanders and helodermid lizards have fascinated me since I was a child.

I'm not really into specifically breeding for color morphs but I have heard there is an albino/leucistic cb Chinese population. I've heard a few rumors of a few available cb in Germany lately does anyone know if these animals are legal?
I 'd appreciate you sharing any information about them.

ivanli · Oct 27, 2013

ivanli-albums-my-chinese-giant-salamander-picture31115-egg-2-tadpole.jpg

ivanli · Oct 27, 2013

Jay Redbond said:
Hello Ivanli,

This interests me somewhat as I went and did CGS survey work this year with ZSL in Fanjingshan national nature reserve. We were training students and professors from a number of institutes across china. Follow link for more details. EDGE Blog » Field survey workshop for the Chinese giant salamander in Fanjingshan

Are they actually breeding them naturally because I was under the impression even in Xian that they are using hormones. It doesn't stack up to me because there is still illegal poaching going on as we found evidence of that while do the training. So if they are breeding them so well why are they still worth 3000-4000yuan per kilo and why do they need to catch wild ones?

I will be over in China for three months hopefully next year organising training and surveys of these amazing animals. We should catch up while I am there I will be in your province at some point.

Kind Regards
Jay

Hello,

As I know, at least, in my hometown, they are breeding them naturally; this is the first time I heard that hormones could be used. You are right, the price used to be 3000 yuan per kilo, but it was the price 2 years ago. Currently, the price is only 500-600 yuan per kilo, 2 years ago, a small tadpole worth about 500 Yuan, but now the price is less than 100 yuan. All this changes due to rapidly reproduce and expansion.

I am now working in Ghana, my family is taking care of my breeding farms, I will back to China at least 3 times next year, and will stay in China one month each time, I also hope we could catch up while I am in China.

Best Regards!
Li Yulong

Jay Redbond · Oct 27, 2013

ivanli said:
Hello,

As I know, at least, in my hometown, they are breeding them naturally; this is the first time I heard that hormones could be used. You are right, the price used to be 3000 yuan per kilo, but it was the price 2 years ago. Currently, the price is only 500-600 yuan per kilo, 2 years ago, a small tadpole worth about 500 Yuan, but now the price is less than 100 yuan. All this changes due to rapidly reproduce and expansion.

I am now working in Ghana, my family is taking care of my breeding farms, I will back to China at least 3 times next year, and will stay in China one month each time, I also hope we could catch up while I am in China.

Best Regards!
Li Yulong

Ok great stuff, I would very much like to see your farms.

Kind regards
Jay

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