Question: Chinese Fire Bellied Newt advice/help.

Hello all, just joined these forums and seeking some advice.

I bought my first FBN on the 21st of Feb as my local exotics store only had the one come in. He's quite a big fella, not skinny or anything however he never goes in the water on his own accord and as of yet to my knowledge he still has not eaten.

He has been in the water twice as I removed his cork bark once to clean it as it had some waste on. He seems to be fine in the water acting as any newt would but after an hour or two he always went back to the cork bark and stayed on there.

For food I was given some frozen tubifex which he has not taken and frankly is quite a nuance to feed to a terrestrial newt as it sort of clumps together and sticks to everything.

I returned to the exotics store Sat 2nd of March, with me I brought a sample of my water to get tested to make sure I read my 6 in 1 water test correctly, the owner done the water test for me and said everything was in the good, although my ammonia levels were about to go into the yellow in the next few days, which is understandable as I am due a partial water change tomorrow.

I asked him what he would advise to feed my terrestrial newt and he suggested fruit flies, springtail and some young banded crickets, I opted for the crickets as they seemed an easier method of getting them into the aquarium but as far as I am aware I do not think he has eaten any. I also purchased some sphagnum moss to help keep my terrestrial one moist.. I also bought my second CFBN that day and he's been in the water since, acts all normal and active even ate the tubifex worms couple of hours after adding them, the new one is a bit smaller than my first one and thinner.

Can anyone advise me on any other foods I could try feeding him? I did try an earthworm that I found in my local woodland a few days after getting him but he did not take to that either.

Thanks in advance and sorry if the post seems lengthy just wanted to give more information to give my question some context.

Hi.

You should try contacting the breeder (dealer) through your pet store and find out what kind of setup did he have it in. Some people do keep them semi aquatic.
Have you tried wax worms? I have some terrestrial Kaiseri that wouldn't eat insects, but will take some very small wax worms. My friend owns a pet store and he lets me hand pick the smallest wax worms I can find.

Steven, these are wild-caught animals, there´s no breeder to contact.

Iksee, unfortunately this is very common. Your newts are very stressed from the gruesome importation process and from the almost certainly inadequate conditions of the pet-shop. In order for them to have a chance they need optimal conditions.
You can find the caresheet for the species in the links in my signature, as well as many other articles. Pay special attention to the ones about cycling and water quality, this is key.
There are vast amounts of information regarding this species throughout the forums too, most of which are actually threads very similar to yours. Make sure to read as much as you can, you need to learn how to offer good conditions for the newts as soon as possible.

Hi Rodrigo.
Why do you assume they are wild caught? I thought that these newts were commonly bred, at least here in the states.

Maybe I'm wrong

They really aren´t. Considering how common the species is in captivity, they are bred rarely and usually in small numbers.
These are not the easiest newts to raise...the metamorphs are tiny, usually hydrophobic and take 1-3 years to mature and become fully aquatic. They are clumsy eaters and require very small prey.
Then you compare that to the fact that pet-shops can acquire adult, WC newts for just a few cents.
Any adult sized newt (anything from 5cm upwards for this species), with vibrant belly colouration and at low prices is going to be WC, even if the pet-shop claims otherwise (which they sometimes do, with a straight face while they tell you you need gravel and a heater). The possibility that they are CB is vanishingly small to the point of being absurd.

Thanks Azhael I'll read through them again.

Just an update when I woke up on monday morning both of them were in the water, was the first time my original one (he's about 8cm) went into the water on his own accord and he stayed there for about 5 or so hours. However he is back on the cork bark but I did manage to get him to eat two earthworms today not sure if he has eaten any of the crickets as they seem to like to jump into the water and climb the corners of my tank.

My newest one (about 6 cm) had been in the water since I got him, and has found his own little resting place on the cork bark which he sometimes lies on, it's a little part of it that is submersed in water. He's eaten the tubifex, earthworms and he also nabbed a cricket trying to get onto the glass from the water.

I have a few more questions:

1. I had noticed when my older one was in the water as he first got in he did have like glossy patches on his skin, like a snails dried up trail. Is this just some sort of mucous to prevent water loss and he spends a lot of time out of the water?

2. How many earthworms can they actually eat at the moment I have just been given them slim, small ones that I have found around 4/5cm long. However I could easily find some long fat nightcrawlers or are they too wide?

Steven in the store they were kept with a air filter, with a slate for terrestrial space however my terrestrial newt was terrestrial in the shop (I saw him terrestrial twice on two seperate occassions), where as my aquatic one was in the water when I saw him in the store. I have also always thought them to be as their underbellies are a bright orange/red and I am sure I read somewhere that CB are more yellowy. Also Azhael said they can take 1-3 years to mature, and over here they are only sold for a mere £6 ($9) which wouldn't really seem worth it as a breeder. Hopefully mine will breed one day if I am lucky and the store can sell CB instead of WC.

Anyway thank you again for your replies.

steven1969s said:

Hi Rodrigo.
Why do you assume they are wild caught? I thought that these newts were commonly bred, at least here in the states.
Maybe I'm wrong

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hey i have a 50/50 with my cfbn some are wild caught some are captive bred. i think in the uk it can depend on the petshop. also i had a similar problem with one of mine and i wish i could give you an answer, but one day he just got in the water and didnt get out he seems happy now so i think cb or wc it could be stress

i currently have some smooth newt morphes and i have been collecting some moss from my local woods thats full of life some too small to see my newts love it and will be finding food within it.

The glossy thing is air being trapped on the skin. This is a clear sign that the animal´s skin is adapted to a terrestrial environment. Apart from becoming hydrophobic, you can also tell because it becomes more granular and not shiny. Newt´s that are fully aquatic develop shiny, smooth skin.
It is very common for imported newts to go terrestrial. This is in response to the severe stress and the inadequate conditions they have experienced. In order to get the animal to go back to being fully aquatic you need optimal water conditions. Dense mats of vegetation near the surface also help a great deal because the newts will be much more comfortable if they can access the surface easily and rest on the plants.
Could you upload a picture of the tank? We´ll be able to advice you better if we know how things currently are.
I can´t give you a number on how many worms they can take. They are able to tackle rather large pieces of big worms, particularly females. I would just offer food ad libitum for now and let them eat as they please. You can place a few small worms or worm pieces in the tank, they will survive for quite some time. If they start to go bad, just take them out.
As i say it´s difficult to determine an exact amount, experience will show you how much they can take and how often they need it. The goal is to keep them plump but not overfed.

I have to say many of us have at one point or another considered the idea of supplying pet-shops with our CB H.orientalis, but this is not quite as feasible or good as it may seem. For one, as previously said, they are not the easiest newts to raise and beginners in particular may find that raising a small amount of these newts takes quite a bit of effort and dedication. Then you would have to raise them up to a certain age/size for it to be practical, because if pet-shops are already terrible at taking care of aquatic adults, i can only imagine what would happen with tiny, terrestrial juveniles, and even then, you would have to come to terms with the very real possibility that the negligent care provided by the shop may well take its toll on the animals that you have raised.
Also, you would have to sell them at competitive prices respective to the WC ones which is difficult given that they are ridiculously cheap.
In short, it´s neither practical nor likely to end well.
Some people have proposed that the only way to end the WC market is by flushing the market with CB animals, but i´m not convinced this is the best way. I think the best results with this species are probably going to be achieved by educating people and directing them to places like this and towards breeders, rather than pet-shops. It´s not likely to make much of an impact for those people who are completely new to this and see a newt at a shop and buy it on a whim, but years of accumulated experience in this forums show us that when those people find out about what the WC market really is and the world of CB possibilities, they almost always change their minds.
The issue of the continuity of availability of WC animals can only be adressed by a dramatic change in people´s views towards animals or through legislation (which is something i´d like to see happen even though it´s not at all likely to). This aspect of the problem is cultural, i think.
In the event of your newts breeding (which, if they get through this and you take good care of them, will happen) there may be ways for you to advertise your offspring at a local level. I just don´t think using the pet-shop as an intermediary is in yours or anybody´s best interest.

Sorry for the rambling xD This is a subject i care about and have given some though to, because like you i once thought it was the solution.

Yeah sure I'll upload a picture tomorrow, need to get ready to leave and will be too dark when I get back.

Iksee said:

Yeah sure I'll upload a picture tomorrow, need to get ready to leave and will be too dark when I get back.

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are the kept outside or inside?

Azhael said:

I have to say many of us have at one point or another considered the idea of supplying pet-shops with our CB H.orientalis, but this is not quite as feasible or good as it may seem.

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This is an excellent idea, the only problem is the fact that many wc animals are so cheap, cfbn are £1.99 each on wholesalers lists so are not commercially viable until the EU stick £5-£10 tax on all wc phibs.

A quick note on belly colour - not all captive-bred specimens have yellow tummies - mine has a vibrant orange-red tummy.

AngieD said:

A quick note on belly colour - not all captive-bred specimens have yellow tummies - mine has a vibrant orange-red tummy.

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Certainly. Equally vibrant colours can be achieved in captivity if the diet contains the right compounds. However, in most cases, CB offspring have paler reds or even no red at all because the average breeder doesn´t really care or doesn´t know how to achieve them. It´s quite rare to see CB H.orientalis that have a very intense red.

Ian, i know it seems like a great idea but i think this kind of thing has to be considered on a species to species basis and i don´t think this is the way to go with H.orientalis. Competing with the WC market of this species is no trivial thing, and there´s still the problem of stressed, neglected animals being bought by people on a whim. In this case, many, many animals would still die and suffer, it´s just changing WC for CB, which i agree is preferable, but i don´t see it as feasible for this species.

Sorry for late reply was a bit hungover yesterday.

Here are the pictures of my tank, I took one as a whole and 2 closer in.

I have two fake plants in the back left corner and rest are live.