Very active roughly 6 month old Axolotl? Is this normal?

Toothless is anything from 4-6 months old, is a full 6 inches long and has the white tips on her fingers (she is Wildtype) so this is how I have estimated her age.

Here's the skinny. In the past two weeks (when we got her) she has moved tanks three times. The first was my Dad's, which was full of other fish, too warm and had gravel. I pleaded with my Dad to move her to another tank, realising she was stressed, and moved her to the only tank we had left - a 6 Gallon tank which I lined with sand and did water changes on every day for 3 days because it had no filter. After three days a relative sold me a 15 gallon tank, which she has been in for a further three days. It is lined with sand, is maintained at 18 degrees, and was equipped with a PF1 Power Filter (which is designed for a 15 Gallon tank). I had to replace this filter with a new one today after two days as the PF1 was full of gunk and wasn't running very well - it was spitting out old bits of gunk. In order to make sure her water was still filtered, I replaced it with the PF Mini (which is only designed for a 9 gallon tank) with brand new foams in it. I know you're supposed to use the old filter media but I had to throw them away because they were out of shape and ancient, and covered with dirt. Besides that, we had had the old filter in the tank for two days so I hope the good bacteria had gotten into our tanks. Besides that, the sand we have also contains natural nitrifying bacteria.

I am a little concerned, though, because she's been fairly settled for a few days, but now and again she'll race around the tank. I added the filter, and ever since she has been a little frisky. She'll lie down on the bottom of the tank, then whizz around, especially near the filter and her driftwood hide. She also keeps swimming at the tank sides, which she's been doing for a few days. I was worried it was ammonia, so I've ordered a test kit to see if that's what's causing it. I looked it up and the only other explanation I could find was irritation, but I only feed bloodworms so I don't know where else she could have got the parasites from. I also treat the water with Tap Water Conditioner so it's not chlorine. She's very active and I've read that 6 month olds are nearly adults and thus spend a lot of time chilling but she still swims around a lot. Is this normal, should I be worried, and what should I do if there are concerns? She also has an air bar as well as a 44 gal/hour filter, and I have been hoovering up her poop and uneaten bloodworm. She eats bloodworm only, and does so in a feeding jar. The only other concern I have is that I recently used a different dechlorinator, but I measured it carefully and used only a capful for my 15 Gallon tank, as it was very concentrated, and this is what my fishkeeper friend recommended.

Reading through this I would like to make some observations and suggestions. Good bacteria 'in the tank' is not much use. Good bacteria in a gunky old filter is better..... Because: the bacterial colony lives on surfaces, and, like your lungs, it needs a huge surface area to be effective, hence sponge, ceramic etc. There is very little bacteria in the water or even on the cleaned glass of a tank.
I would be asking nicely for a squeeze of the filter media from the goldfish tank (squeeze the goldfish sponge against the new sponges to transfer some of the gunk directly). Or, better still, chop a bit of both the new and gunky sponges and swap them so that you have a chunk of the Goldfish's sponge in your new filter (but remember that the goldfish are now a little short on bacteria so a little water change for them would be in order) . I would also consider doing small daily water changes on your axie tank to give your bacteria colony time to grow without the water getting too high in ammonia. 10% should do it, I think. Higher could deplete the nitrite and starve the nitrite processing bacteria. After a week you could reduce to every other day then every third day etc. Gradual is good in biological systems.
Your test kit will be very useful in helping you to see where you are at.

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Firstly to gain good bacteria from any filter / filter media - you have be 100% sure that it comes from a healthy fully cycled tank that is still currently running and any filters / sponge / media cannot be let dry out.

From the sounds of it you've stuck in an old filter that was not being used before being sold to you. You cannot gain anything from a dried out filter except dirt & problems! Any tanks or filters that are being set up / reused need to be thoroughly cleaned with vinegar & rinsed well.

It sounds like all these experiences will definitely have stressed out your poor axie. Personally I would get a large tub, place your axolotl in it & carry out 100% daily water changes - at the moment you have to calm your axie down & keep it quiet & calm somewhere cool & quiet. Meanwhile you can set up the tank & start to get it cycled.

Please get your axolotl into clean fresh dechlorinated water changed daily. To even try & cycle a tank without liquid test kits is a recipe for disaster - it is a fine balanced chemistry & cannot be guesstimated or ignored.






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Thanks guys! The processes of cycling and chemistry are something I'm brand new to, so I'm reading about it and getting the advice of people like you to help me out! (Obviously, or I would have cycled the tank before I put her in! Bad newbie Axxie owner!)

She's much calmer today, she's just chilling behind her driftwood, with her gills twitching every now and again, which tells me she is calm. I will probably wait until I get a test kit (I've ordered it, but it'll take a few days to come) before I do anything further unless I see signs of distress - like you said, I can't guess what the tank is doing chemistry-wise until I get parameters and I don't want to mess up what cycling has already occured. Thank you for the advice about bacteria, I realise now that the sponges - particularly the white sponges - are SITES for bacterial growth, and don't release bacteria into the system like I thought.
Further reading's definetely required! I know this is fairly basic, but I'm learning so much, so fast! Anything I should look out for, apart from stress behaviour, overactivity, damaged gills, frequent trips to the surface and shedding? Another contributor told me that some axxies are just more active than others, so I don't know whether to be concerned or not, and of course, I'm wary of making any changes to the tank in case it's counterproductive.She looks fine today, the water's very clear and I've been hoovering up poop and food waste as I see it, as well as using the jar. Her water was also fully dechlorinated before she was put in.

I really don't want to move her again as I feel it will only stress her out more, and I need at least a little food waste and poop to kick start the system, from what I remember. Going ground zero will only reset all the cycling that's happened. I know you are more experienced, and I value your input, but my heart tells me that moving her again and going ground zero for the fourth time in two weeks will reverse what has already occured. She has just gotten used to the tank and her new filter - I have a feeling it was the slightly stronger current that was freaking her out (the flow is diverted to the surface and is very low; it's designed for a tank one size smaller after all). She has calmed down significantly and I will be monitoring her very carefully.

Please don't feel I don't value your opinion or think you are wrong. I am learning and will make mistakes, and if I do, I will hopefully spot any ill effects on Toothless and know what to do. I just feel I need to do what is right for Toothless while taking advice for those more experienced than myself, as well as gaining more knowledge. Thank you both, I will be heeding your advice, but also deciding when and what to do when I have more information (my own fault for not getting the kit earlier).

Petersgirl said:

She looks fine today, the water's very clear and I've been hoovering up poop and food waste as I see it, as well as using the jar. Her water was also fully dechlorinated before she was put in.

I really don't want to move her again as I feel it will only stress her out more, and I need at least a little food waste and poop to kick start the system, from what I remember. Going ground zero will only reset all the cycling that's happened.

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Bear in mind that just because the tank water is "very clear", does not mean it's safe. Unfortunately, Ammonia and Nitrite (highly toxic) are clear and colourless, making them damn near impossible to detect with the naked eye. The only way to ascertain their levels is to test the water.

If you are determined to keep the axolotl in the tank until you receive your test kits, you'll need to do daily partial water changes (recommend 10-25%) to dilute the toxins to 'acceptable' levels for the axolotl/s living in this water.

If, as Nikki suggested, you should opt for putting the axolotl in a tub, you CAN still feed your cycling tank whilst the axolotl is 'not at home'. After conducting the daily water change for the axolotl, you can throw the old discarded 'poopy water' into the tank to feed the bacteria.

Are there any other hides in the tank other than the driftwood? If the filter is only a few days old (no established bacteria) and there are not many hides for the bacteria to have colonized, then your cycle has only just begun. It usually takes anywhere between one to three months to cycle a tank. This process is quickened if the filter media and/or ornaments of an already established aquarium are transferred to the new tank, but only if done correctly.

If you haven't read them already, I would strongly recommend you read these articles:
Caudata Culture Articles - Water Quality
Caudata Culture Articles - Cycling

Whatever you decide to do, please keep us in the loop, and feel free to ask any questions. Unlike our dear axolotls, we don't bite...:uhoh:.

@Jacquie: Thanks for the fab tips! I've water changed today (20%) to make sure she is comfortable Sorry for that puzzled first response to both wandering and Nikki's posts, I was a bit confused as to what to do as the two answers both seemed good, but they were different, so I have kept her in the tank and will endeavor to do a water change every day until I get the kit. Now that I look again, a 20% water change makes sense to keep down the ammonia. Please be patient with my inexperience >.<

I also knew you can't see ammonia or nitrite, but it did make me feel much better to see the water was at least clear - it's one less worry, I guess. Hopefully, I will get this kit on Monday, but until then I am more than happy to do whatever it takes to make Toothless comfortable. I will hold off on the tub for now, only because, as I said, I feel she has gone through so many tank changes already and that she just needs to get settled. I understand why it was suggested, but a water change every day is no problem. I know she might experience an ammonia spike while in the tank, but I will keep on top of it with water changing and tests when I get them. I just want what's best for her

The driftwood came from another tank but had been out of one for a while, so I doubt there's anything coming from that, helpful or no, and it was boiled to remove any contaminants from the box it was kept in. She also has a new boiled terracotta pot to sleep in, as her previous hide was ceramic and glazed paint, so I was worried it might leech out and make her ill. She also has sand for substrate and is fed from a glass jar.

In case you didn't realise, ammonia is released into the water via the gills. So although cleaning all the poop up very important, its not the only ammonia source.

Chopping a large chunk out of the goldfish filter media and swapping it with some of the new will give you a headstart on your bacteria culture. (And some gravel in a pop sock will add a little more). You would be effectively cloning your dad's goldfish tank. Think of it as splitting the bacterial culture that supported the goldfish and the axolotl while it was in with them. Of course, your dad's goldfish will be a little short of bacteria if you do this, hence, a small water change or two for them. Bacteria in an established culture grow fast, so their system should cope. If you don't steal some of their filter sponge you will be starting from scratch and I would recommend keeping your axie separately in a bare tank as described. I have been growing on some juveniles in bare tanks without filters for the last five months. Totally fed up with water changing now! But the juveniles are in superb condition. It can be done.

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@Wandering: Thanks! That made it a little clearer, I could probably definetely do the gravel in the sock. Might need to ask Dad nicely if I can cut a bit of his filter out too and replace it with one of my sponges...hehe
I didn't realise ammonia is released from the gills! I thought they breathed out CO2 for some reason! >.< Feel the water changes - I think I've done at least 10 in the past two weeks, but I don't mind them - yet! It's gotten to the point where I can almost dose Tap Safe blindfolded

Well, they do produce CO2, but the ammonia excretion is presumably comparable to our having a wee...... I guess the point is, you still have ammonia to get rid of by water changes or bacterial processing, even if you are scrupulous about clearing up poop and uneaten food.

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Given you are a newbie please listen to advice.

Please remove your axolotl to a clean fresh tub of dechlorinated water, keep it cool & dark & your axolotl will not be stressed!

Keeping your axolotl in toxic water with no ability to test is not good! Once you see signs of damage it's too late & that means during the time you've been waiting for visual evidence the axolotl has been suffering. Then you have to try & fix your axolotl - something you could easily avoid by keeping it in a tub for a few days!

10-25% is considered a normal change for a healthy tank - you have a live animal in a toxic environment & 40% changes daily would be closer to what you need to change to reduce the toxins enough to not be slowly poisoning your axolotl.

Damage that you let happen now can affect how your axolotl develops - burning the gills may stop them from ever growing to their full potential.

Personally I would never leave an animal in toxic environment for a minute longer than necessary! I have 7 juveniles in a 3'ft tank & I had a nitrate spike the other day (40ppm) & all of them spent 48hrs in super clean tubs so that they could recover in clean water while I cleaned the tank & did a couple of big water changes. I test my water every 3 days & usually do 10-20% water changes daily for all the tanks with more than 1 lotl.

Please do the right thing by your lotl.
After all he can't tell you what he's
going through



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@wandering: No problem! I've been doing daily changes every day since.

@Nikki: I know why you are suggesting what you're suggesting, but won't moving her again just stress her out more? I just need to know if it'll do more harm than good. It'll be the third time she's moved tanks in two weeks. She was stressing for two days after I moved her into this new tank, I really think moving her to another tank will freak her out (the only tub I have is far too small; I have a spare breeding tank, which is what I'd have to use instead, and I'm guessing it'd need 100% water changes every day, which wouldn't bother me.
My main concern is causing her illness, which I know is definetely a risk with the ammonia, but I don't want to stress her out either.
Would doing daily 40% water changes in her current tank be okay? Or do you still advocate the new tank with 100% water changes until I know the readings?
PS She is very restful today. She curls up in the corners and just lies still. Her gills twitch every now and again. I haven't seen any worrying signs, but is her new calmness after two days of being overexcited a concern?

The ammonia is the biggest risk. I have lots of fishtanks so I can obtain enough bacteria laden sponges to support my axie with an instant cycle. If you can't do this immediately its better to cycle your tank quickly without an occupant, and keep your axie in a tub, changing water daily.

Trouble is, the bacteria need ammonia and nitrite, the axie needs to be without it. There is an equilibrium, where your axie produces ammonia and its converted to nitrite and then nitrate in a constant process. When you are starting from nothing you get a lot of ammonia while the bacterial population grows, and your axie gets poisoned.

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So you would advocate the new, smaller tanks with 100% water changes? I do have fishtanks set up, like Nikki said, I have no way of knowing whether they've cycled completely or not but more beneficial bacteria can't hurt. I'll borrow some of my Dad's gravel.

I will move her today. I don't want to poison her. I'll do changes every day and clean up after each meal too. Her new tank is only 3 gallons but hey, less water to change!

I've moved her into the breeding tank, half filled with clean, cool and dechlorinated water. She's a little freaked out by the bare bottom (I have no sand left) but looks otherwise quite content and happy. She'll get her half bloodworm cube tomorrow and I'll do a 100% water change straight after her meal. I've also put a towel over the front so it's nice and dark.
Thank you for the advice, Nikki. I've never had an axolotl before and knew nothing about cycling. She looks much happier and a lot less sluggish.

I've only just noticed that there was a little poop underneath her hide (must have been produced overnight) and I have only just hoovered it because of work (I hoovered yesterday too). That might have caused a spike. Toothless will stay in her 'hospital tank' until I can test the water and ensure it is properly cycled.
Will net (like the material used to make net curtains) filled with gravel work just as well to seed her old tank as a nylon pop sock? I only have one pair of tights and I need them for St John parades I feel much calmer and Toothless looks happier ^^

If you have no ability to test the water then you should have your axie in clean dechlorinated water - no ammonia is really acceptable & given you cannot just guess the levels - until you have a test kit I would seem the tank to be toxic.

You can buy the tubs at the cheap dollar shops / hardware stores & they're a lot easier to maintain the daily changes - plus you'll need to scrub out the tub every second day to remove slime (scrub with salt/Bicarb mix) you can keep the tub somewhere dark & cool so there should be no stressors.

If you move your axolotl carefully there shouldn't be a great deal if stress at all - use a large fine mesh fish net or a wide plastic laddle strainer & just gently lift the lotl to the surface then cover with your hand so no escaping - make sure the tub is right next to you & gently place lotl into tub.

I'd prefer to stress it a bit with regular moving (they soon get used to it) rather than leaving it to soak in toxic ammonia & be stressing its entire system.

By the way - how is it you have fish tanks yet you haven't got a test kit?
Every site / forum like this for fish advocate strongly for people to test their water parameters regularly & keep logs of readings & adjustments (water changes / filter clean / chemical filtration added) so you know what your tank does when you tweak certain things. Liquid master freshwater testing kits are essential if you want healthy fish in healthy water. (Just my 2 cents!)



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Net curtain mesh is fine just tie it tightly (give it a good swish in the old tank to make sure no gravel escapes) & suspend it near the intake to the filter or even inside the filter if it a canister or a hob style. Leave it in the tank for a couple of weeks & once you've got the test kit you can accurately gauge where in the cycle you are (or might be cycled thanks to seeding the bacteria) it can certainly jump start your tank.

So happy to hear your lotl's in detox
Thank you for getting her where you know there's no risk of any kind of problems caused by water issues.

Do you have any earthworms available? They're so much more nutritious, easy to feed & less mess than bloodworm



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@Nikki: I have no testing kit because the fish tanks belong to my father. He thinks water test kits are for worrywarts and that doing water changes kills your fish >.<
Toothless was not mine to begin with. He bought her as a present for my Mum, who had no interest in her. I was concerned, and I'd fallen in love with her, so I did research and was shocked to realise that Dad was keeping her in a 24 degree tank, filled with small pebbles and large fancy goldfish, so I pleaded with him to move her into a tank in my room so I could give her the cool, dark, quiet tank she needed with the right substrate and care (and as a new Axxie parent, I didn't do the right research on cycling first - it's all one big learning curve really - I've only actually had her two weeks so far. My parent's impulse buying meant I had to learn fast and had no time to research her or cycle the tank before she was in our home). There's a board with her full story on "Could I have your opinion on this please?' which was the first forum post I ever wrote on here, asking for general axxie advice. Up until now I haven't really owned my own fish, but Toothless made me want to learn how to make a tank the best it can be

I've filled a piece of netting with a large netful of gravel and I'm keeping it by the filter inlet for a week or so. My test kit should be here in anything from 3-5 days time but until then it's 100% water changes daily. I hope you don't mind but I want to stick with the breeder tank as it seems to be just fine for the job. Toothless doesn't stress out during water changes or transfers any more - she practically swims into the tub when I lower it, she always knows she's going somewhere cooler and nicer than the tank she's in, plus she'll get her food tomorrow, which will cheer her up ^.^
I don't have a worm supplier yet. I've looked online and am looking at local bait shops at the moment; someone else suggested them to me because of their high nutrient content. Do you get yours from bait shops or online?

Also, I'm a bit concerned about my Interpet Mini PF Filter. It says the carbon sponge inside removes treatments from the water - does that mean it will remove the dechlorinator from my water when I add it to my larger tank? I don't really have time to let it sit for 24 hours as I water change every day, and my parents get mad if I try to store salamander water (ready dechlorinated bottles of water) in the house. Another axxie owner assured me that as long as it's carefully dosed and mixed well, it's not a problem. Do you agree?

One last question - do I need to do a 20% water change every day on my cycling tank too, to stop ammonia building up, as I remember wandering said?

The breeder tank should be fine as long as Toothless can stretch out to her full length with no impediments.

Bait shops and online worm farms are a great place to look for worms. Some online stores even cater for pets specifically. You want worms that have not been exposed to harmful chemicals such as fertilizers, pesticides, etc. If the seller doesn't mention if the worms are chemical free or not, inquire by email (or ask directly if you are in the store ) to make sure the worms are safe for animal consumption before buying them.

Bait shops are usually okay, as the worms are used for fishing, but ensure you check before you buy; better safe than sorry!

Carbon is used mainly for helping keep tanks clear of cloudiness. It won't remove the dechlorinator, or have any effect on it. Just make sure you rinse the carbon well BEFORE adding it to the filter, otherwise you'll have a black mess to contend with; harmless, but unsightly.

Dechlorinator should work instantly, but it's best to let a bucket of treated water sit overnight (ideally) in the same location as the breeder tank, so when added, the temperature is kept consistent for the axolotl. Are you able to keep a bucket of water standing next to the breeder tank?

Instructions for doing a fishless cycle (which you will be doing for Toothless's tank while she is enjoying her holiday in the breeder tank) can be found in the Cycling link I posted in my previous post.

I think you're doing great so far.

I get my worms from this website Buying Lobworms, Worm Fishing for Salmon, Earthworms for Sale, Wormeries for Fishing, Worms Coarse
You can buy smaller ones too which means less worm chopping and they even do wormery starter packs and worm food lol. :happy:

My water sits over night but most of the time not even for 24 hours. I work random shifts so can't keep a solid cleaning routine. I think as long as the water is a similar temperature to the tank and has dechlorinator in it, then it should be fine. Just make sure it's cold water and don't add hot water from the tap which could add copper.

Thanks so much guys! I fed Toothless her very first earthworm today because she didn't seem to want her usual bloodworm. She couldn't believe it - real live food! She sniffed at it and snaffled it up, quick as you like, then sat there as if to say, 'ooh, it wriggles!'

Inspired by this, I got hold of my local Marine Aquaria shop who have agreed to get a whole pot for only £2! I'll make sure to enquire whether they're chemical free, but given the shop is specifically an exotic pet/aquaria shop I really hope they've got a good supplier! Weirdly none of my local bait shops do Earthworms, only Lugworms, which need salt water to live.
Is it okay if I keep the worms in my compost bin outside? There's a plentiful supply of compost and rotting grass/material for them to eat, plus if I can establish them there it prevents a worm escape disaster AND a plentiful supply of food for Toothless; Earthworms are so much cleaner than bloodworm! We don't use any chemicals in our garden or anything either. I'm just a little worried about them picking up parasites - but the first worm I fed Toothless was fresh from our garden (cleaned thoroughly first, of course) and she loved it!
Opinions please?

@Jacquie - sorry, I mean the sponge in my filter is meant to be a 'carbon filter.' It's a black coloured sponge that claims to remove odors, metals and chemicals from the water in my filter but has a finite shelf life - about 6 months. I think I might have given the impression it was a block of carbon. Sorry!

@Snugglytime - Thank you so much! I just want what's best for Toothless and she's thriving with all the knowledge I'm gaining. Also happy to know I don't need to let the water sit, although I do intend to set up some pretreated water soon - my dechlorinator is 10ml for every 40 litres, which is a bit awkward to measure.