Illness/Sickness: Skin peeling, stress maybe?

geekychik · Jul 22, 2013

Hi.
I went away for almost 3 days on a trip. Before I left, I did a small water change, cleaned her poo and fed her 3 or 4 axolotl pellets, which she ate quite happily.
I came back and she looked terrible! She wasn't interested in eating either, but that maybe because the tank is 13c.

She is covered in white stuff and swims around the tank, often franticly.
So, thinking the last water change wasn't large enough, I changed a good 20% of her water, made sure to put enough dechlorinator in it and covered her tank with some old cloth, so it's dark. Should I fridge her instead?

Here is a before and after picture I took with my phone camera. The before pic is only about a week old.

Also, I took a short (but not very good) video with my camera too:
VIDEO0005 - YouTube

shazza · Jul 22, 2013

I would be thinking straight out water quality problems.. it wont go away overnight, fix the water and hopefully little mate will recover. Do u run a filter at all? few days i would imagine normally not a prob.

geekychik · Jul 22, 2013

I run a sponge filter and also another filter that is the intake for the chiller.

mackinthebox · Jul 22, 2013

post your water parameters
ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph if you can
would go a long way towards figuring out what it could be

Bubilog · Jul 22, 2013

This happened to one of my axxies and when i checked my parameters there was an ammonia spike, what i did was 20% wc for 3 days then 70% wc then he got well

geekychik · Jul 22, 2013

Thanks for the replies.
Good to know that other people's axi's lived through this and its most likely just water quality. I will do an ammonia test, but I dont like posting my water perimeters, as my experience has been that people fight over what is wrong and right and I don't want to get into that again. I will just keep an eye out and do water changes everyday and see what happens. If nothing happens or she gets worse, I will fridge her for a few days.
Thanks for the help :happy:

Alkylhalide · Jul 22, 2013

In all honesty levels should be 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and under 40nitrate. Any spike is bad for your axie expecially in its state. So yes we would argue. If your axie was healthy i would not be worried about a small spike because you can fix it with a few larger waterchanges etc.

Right now regardless of the levels in your tank you should take your axie out and put it in a tub of fresh dechlorinated water and do 100% water changes daily. Keep the water cool and just keep an eye on it. Do not refridgerate.

When there is something wrong with an axie expecially when it looks like water quality issue i always recommend remove the lotl from the tank. You can at least be assured that your axie is in fresh water daily.

geekychik · Jul 23, 2013

Its not that I would argue with you, other people would. Some say 0 ammonia, others say 0.25 is ok, but like I said, I'd rather not get into it. Looks like an ammonia spike though, so I am keeping an eye on the tank temp and doing daily water changes.
Hopefully things will improve.

Alkylhalide · Jul 23, 2013

I would say up to .5 is okay, however if an axolotl is ill in any way no ammonia is good. Also nitrite is very damaging as well. I dont think you should just leave your axie in the tank while you try to stabalize it. It may make the problem worst and harder or even impossible to fix. Put your lotl in a tuperware container doing 100% water changes daily with dechlorinated water. Rinse the container out as well. Do this until your lotl gets better/you fix the culprit on what happened

geekychik · Jul 25, 2013

After doing a large water change one day and small water changes every other day, she seems to be getting better. Most of the white stuff has peeled off and is coming off very easily. Now all I have to do is to get her to start eating again

short video:
VIDEO0006 - YouTube

geekychik · Jul 26, 2013

Almost all of the white stuff has peeled off, but she is still looking stressed and I don't know why. So, although somehow I know I'm going to get into trouble for the ammonia levels, the water perimeters are as follows:

Ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 0.25
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
water temp: 13c/55.4f

The tank has been the same temperature for about 3 days or so and only varies 1 or 2 degree every now and again. Her tank is covered in an old curtain all of the time, except when I feed her, so its nice and dark, although she is still not eating and I'm getting worried about it.

FX1C · Jul 26, 2013

geekychik said:
Almost all of the white stuff has peeled off, but she is still looking stressed and I don't know why. So, although somehow I know I'm going to get into trouble for the ammonia levels, the water perimeters are as follows:

Ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 0.25
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
water temp: 13c/55.4f

The tank has been the same temperature for about 3 days or so and only varies 1 or 2 degree every now and again. Her tank is covered in an old curtain all of the time, except when I feed her, so its nice and dark, although she is still not eating and I'm getting worried about it.

What kind of test are you using? Because with zero Nitrate your tank has not cycled.

The reason she's still looking stressed is that she should be in a tub full of fresh accurately measured dechlorinated water. Leaving an axolotl in an unhealthy tank when it's already unwell is asking for more troubles

by not detoxing your axolotl while you try & fix your tank means your poor axie continues to stress & suffer.

I would try adding some black tea to the fresh water in the tub - it may help to soothe the skin & stave off fungus returning.

Please post accurate parameters that way you'll get accurate advice - of course there are differing opinions on a public forum - but you have to be prepared for people's opinions if your wanting proper advice.

There's no need to sugar coat the advice to make getting the axolotl into safe healthy water a priority. You have continued to leave your lotl in the tank exposing it to toxins when it really needs to detox urgently.

<3 >o_o< <3

geekychik · Jul 27, 2013

"You have continued to leave your lotl in the tank exposing it to toxins when it really needs to detox urgently."
"Leaving an axolotl in an unhealthy tank when it's already unwell is asking for more troubles"

How is the tank unhealthy? Detox from what? That's what I'm trying to find out! And of course it hasn't cycled, as I said in former posts, I did a large water change. My axolotl had no problems sitting in the tank during the cycling process the first time.

"Please post accurate parameters that way you'll get accurate advice - of course there are differing opinions on a public forum - but you have to be prepared for people's opinions if your wanting proper advice."

Please let me know if the test kit I'm using somehow isn't good enough and yes I do follow the instructions.
The only advice I've had from most people is 'put it in a tub full of fresh dechlorinated water, because it needs to detox' but no one has been able to tell me, even though I posted my water perimeters, what this toxin is!
I will try the 'put it in a tub' method that everyone seems to be so positive about and see what happens, oh, and hope the weather doesn't fluctuate because in the tub, there is no chiller or anything to regulate the temperature.

mackinthebox · Jul 27, 2013

I hate when people attack the person asking for help...
anyway, im glad the white stuff has come off
Does your axie's skin look better? is it close to its original colors?
Is she eating at all?

I am going to hazard a guess that something irritated the axie's skin, I cant say what as i wasnt there

if all the white stuff is gone then im fairly certainwe can rule out fungus at this point
what do you use to dechlorinate and treat your water? is it the same stuff you use all the time or did you switch?

I use the same test kit myself so its about as accurate as you can get without getting really expensive tests...

I just saw your video of it swimming around franticly and I dont think you have much to worry about there, my axie does the same with perfect water parameters as do many others on this forum
I would be more worried about whether or not she is eating

if the skin has cleared up and she is eating then I would put her back in the tank and maybe get her something to hide in

im no expert but this is what I would do in your situation

geekychik · Jul 27, 2013

Thanks for the idea of skin irritants, I will search the tank and tank items some more.
Unfortunately, she is currently not eating, but thats axolotl pellets, so I will search the garden for some live worms in the daylight.
Since spending some time in the container, about 99% of the white stuff has gone and she seems more awake and active, but now her gills are falling off!

I use Prime water dechlorinator.
The only thing I can think of that changed when I was away was the weather, which shouldn't have caused any reaction such as this. I use the same brand dechlorinator, same test kit, same tap water, same chiller, same hoses, ect.
That's what I don't understand, is, what on earth has caused this, because I didn't change a thing!

I had my axolotl for almost 5 months with no problems what so ever, and, without changing anything, it's gotten to this. I will call a friend tomorrow and hope she can visit and inspect my poor axolotl, as I am out of ideas as to what the problem is.

P.S I put her in a clean container of dechlorinated water after the photos were taken

snuggly time · Jul 27, 2013

Glad her skins looks better. She does look very skinny so I hope she eats soon.

Do you measure the dechlorinator accurately when you put it in the water? Maybe it's worth trying another brand, you never know if they have changed the product itself.

maghan6 · Jul 27, 2013

The "toxin" is a build up of either ammonia or nitrite in the axies system due to a spike in the tank. By putting the axie in fresh, clean water, the axie can "detox." That's why the majority of people recommend putting the axie in a tub that can be emptied daily. As for the water conditioner, I've used prime for years without a problem, but it has to be measured carefully because it is so concentrated. Too much can crash the cycle of your tank by starving the beneficial bacteria.

As for the axolotl not eating, I would bump the temp up a little and see if that helps stimulate an appetite. Just gradually increase the temp a few degrees. I believe the worms are a good idea as well. Something wiggly just might encourage him/her to eat. Good luck and keep us posted!

geekychik · Jul 28, 2013

Thank you maghan6! If someone had told me earlier that "toxin" is a build up of either ammonia or nitrite in the axies system due to a spike in the tank, I would've put her in a container straight away! It makes complete sense now!

Anyway, she showed no interest in the live worms unfortunately and I can't bump up the temp of the container because its winter here. Bits of her gills are still falling off though, is that normal?

Alkylhalide · Jul 28, 2013

Well really i dont recommend it to detox the axolotl. I recommend it because fresh clean dechlorinated water is always best and if its a water quality issue you need to remove the lotl from the water immediately. You cant just fix the water quality over a few days because the axolotl does not have that much time. Water quality quickly stresses them out.

I tell everyone whos axolotl is ill to take them out of the tank immediately. 99% of the time its water quality.

Yes its true that it detoxes the axolotl. But thats not the main reason to take them out. Its to stop the damage that is being caused by the water. Axolotls absorb everything through their skin. And are very sensitive because of this. It does not take much to kill an axolotl.

Petersgirl · Jul 28, 2013

When you say 'bits of her gills,' do you mean fronds or skin geekychik?
Also, if she won't eat worms...can you try blackworms? I hear they're irresistible!

I hope she gets better soon - bear in mind she might not be eating if the temp is cooler, as she won't need as much energy (she's cold blooded after all!) and also if she is stressed. I'm inclined to think the white stuff you saw on her was likely skin shedding (either due to water conditions, stress or high temp) and has stopped since she is now in clean water.

In the meantime, how is your cycle doing? You can add your bubby's leavings to the tank water to carry on feeding the bacteria you have. Also, if her skin and gills are shedding a little still (you said parts of her gills were shedding) you can try adding black tea to her tub (I think that's already been suggested - sorry if so!)

Hope this helps!

Illness/Sickness: Skin peeling, stress maybe?

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