Mudpuppy vs Axolotl

Lately I've been looking at pictures of mud puppies and I kinda rgeet getting an axolotl because mud puppies look much cooloer. So can you tell me some things to get me back
into axolotls ?

Or at least tell me why mudpuppies are basically axolotls?

I think mud puppies are heaps bigger than axolotl's, and don't come in so many colours. (actually I'm pretty sure it's just the one colour) other than that most salamanders in their aquatic state are very similar in everything but appearance.

If you trade in your axolotl for a mudpuppy you can bet that down the line you'll wish you got some other pet instead of the mudpuppy.

1) Axolotls are cute and much easier to get information and help with.
2) Axolotls are one of the only animals to be sexually mature and remain in a neonatal stage for their entire lives.
3) Axolotls are endangered and by keeping them you are ensuring breeding stock.
4) You are saving an animal that might otherwise have gone to an owner that wasn't sure how best to care for them.
5) They have super cool external gills!
6) They nibble your hand and chase you when you clean their tank.
7) They GENUINELY recognise their owners.
8) They yawn in the cutest way possible!
9) They come in so many beautiful colours.
10) The pot luck of raising one only to find it wasn't the colour, gender or even size you expected, but love!
11) They're not that common so people are usually very interested in them.
12)You can watch them for HOURS.
13) Fab people on Caudata.
14) The axolotl song.
15) Sweet axolotl pictures...

Need I go on!

Blue Spotted said:

Lately I've been looking at pictures of mud puppies and I kinda rgeet getting an axolotl because mud puppies look much cooloer. So can you tell me some things to get me back
into axolotls ?

Click to expand...

Probably the wrong forum to ask, it being an entire forum dedicated to axies... But then axies aren't for everyone.

Mud puppies have a longer life span then axies, if your bored of your axie already what happens to the mudpuppy when you decide it isn't as cool as you thought? I wouldnt have thought they would be so easy to rehome as axies due to their nature.

I personally think mudpuppies are more interesting-looking that Axolotls. xD They look so grumpy and their eye markings are interesting. I have no idea about their care, though, and I don't think they're a reasonable option for me in the UK, and especially as a first time aquarist. What I HAVE read makes me think they require more specialised care than Axolotls.

Species, Genus & Family Discussions - Large Aquatic Salamanders (Hellbenders/Cryptobranchids, <i>Necturus</i>, <i>Siren</i>, etc.) at Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Portal

Take a look in this forum if you want to learn more though.

Axolotls will one day rule the world and eat up all worms in existence. You'd better be on their side. Reason enough?

pookiewn said:

Probably the wrong forum to ask, it being an entire forum dedicated to axies...

Click to expand...

Ahem...not true!

Mudpuppies (Necturus spp.) are fascinating creatures, but unfortunately nearly all available animals are wild-caught. That´s a market that any responsible caudate keeper should not wish to perpetuate.
Personally, i think Necturus are far more interesting than the domesticated axolotls, but it´s kind of pointless since it´s obviously a very subjective matter.
I do agree, though, that if you are getting bored of your axolotl, you shouldn´t be thinking about Necturus...

Azhael said:

Ahem...not true!

Mudpuppies (Necturus spp.) are fascinating creatures, but unfortunately nearly all available animals are wild-caught. That´s a market that any responsible caudate keeper should not wish to perpetuate.
Personally, i think Necturus are far more interesting than the domesticated axolotls, but it´s kind of pointless since it´s obviously a very subjective matter.
I do agree, though, that if you are getting bored of your axolotl, you shouldn´t be thinking about Necturus...

Click to expand...

I stand corrected, I did say probably

pookiewn said:

I stand corrected, I did say probably

Click to expand...

It depends whether you're talking about this section of subforums, or the forum as a whole, and whether you two miscommunicated there.

The axolotl forum is busiest because you get all us pet-lovers in here too, but the other forums cover many species by enthusiasts and collectors and people working in zoological facilities with these creatures. The enthusiasts, etc, are in the axolotl forum too, of course, because axolotls are awesome little caudates!

I love thread about the Mudpuppies nest-guarding habits.

Aren't axolotls sometimes mislabeled as waterdogs and mudpuppies by inexperienced pet shops (in much the same way they're called baby dinosaurs? (Or are mudpuppies and waterdogs different too?)

Yes, there you are. They are more available colour morphs in axolotls - is this because they breed more easily in captivity? Would I be right in thinking you can get colour morphs in most species?

Like Axolotls, Mudpuppies retain their external gills into adulthood and are fully aquatic for life.

It is more responsible, especially if you're a casual pet owner without much experience of various amphibians to keep axolotls are pets because they are more readily captive-bred. Maintenance may also be more straightforward/there be more literature to follow to keep them happy and healthy.

They are gorgeous looking animals, but that alone can't really justify keeping one captive just as a pet, I don't think.

It's not that I'm bored of my Axolotl, I love him, and think he's awesome. I'm just not a huge fan of exotic and colorful animals, this is why I like mudpuppies slightly more. However, it does not mean I don't like axolotls, they are probably the coolest exotic animals. I would just like to have a mud puppy too, does anyone know places in Illinois where you can catch mud puppies?

Azhael said:

Personally, i think Necturus are far more interesting than the domesticated axolotls, but it´s kind of pointless since it´s obviously a very subjective matter.

Click to expand...

Same here!

Ah, well, the phrase "an entire forum" did make me assume it was the site in general, and that made a vein pop in my forehead

The reason why axolotls have many colour mutations but Necturus spp. so far have none, is that axolotls have been bred in captivity for a long time and almost since day 1 they have been subjected to intensive artificial selection. Every mutant, every odd looking individual has been selected for and the genes have been purposefully spread in large numbers.
You are indeed correct that the same could potentially happen to not just most, but to any species and is in fact happening to some, which is very unfortunate because while people go "ooh, look at the perdy colours", the genetic fitness of the captive populations goes down the drain and they become more and more domesticated and derived until they become the equivalent of what poodles are to wolves.

Blue spotted, as long as it is legal (this would be the FIRST thing to check), you can do what you like, but i would encourage you to not take animals from the wild to satisfy your whim. It´s not doing wild populations any favours...and as animal enthusiasts i would think that should be our primary concern.

Petersgirl said:

1) Axolotls are cute and much easier to get information and help with.
2) Axolotls are one of the only animals to be sexually mature and remain in a neonatal stage for their entire lives.
3) Axolotls are endangered and by keeping them you are ensuring breeding stock.
4) You are saving an animal that might otherwise have gone to an owner that wasn't sure how best to care for them.
5) They have super cool external gills!
6) They nibble your hand and chase you when you clean their tank.
7) They GENUINELY recognise their owners.
8) They yawn in the cutest way possible!
9) They come in so many beautiful colours.
10) The pot luck of raising one only to find it wasn't the colour, gender or even size you expected, but love!
11) They're not that common so people are usually very interested in them.
12)You can watch them for HOURS.
13) Fab people on Caudata.
14) The axolotl song.
15) Sweet axolotl pictures...

Need I go on!

Click to expand...

Yes yes, don't stop the awesomeness!

but i would encourage you to not take animals from the wild to satisfy your whim. It´s not doing wild populations any favours...and as animal enthusiasts i would think that should be our primary concern.

Click to expand...

I try not to take endangered species out of the wild. However, I do not like buying from pet shops. Too much abuse there. The only wild caught animals I have ever had were American Toads, which are very common. I have one right now, and she is the greatest pet ever! And I used to have a couple blue spotted salamanders which aren't endangered in Illinois. In some other states, however, they are.

pondweed said:

Yes, there you are. They are more available colour morphs in axolotls - is this because they breed more easily in captivity? Would I be right in thinking you can get colour morphs in most species?

Like Axolotls, Mudpuppies retain their external gills into adulthood and are fully aquatic for life.

It is more responsible, especially if you're a casual pet owner without much experience of various amphibians to keep axolotls are pets because they are more readily captive-bred. Maintenance may also be more straightforward/there be more literature to follow to keep them happy and healthy.

They are gorgeous looking animals, but that alone can't really justify keeping one captive just as a pet, I don't think.

Click to expand...

Apparently one white male axolotl from Paris is the sole ancestor of all albino offspring, but I don't know how much of that is hearsay. I would argue that the albino strain of axolotls would usually not exist in the wild, or they wouldn't survive long enough to breed, because they are very visible, especially in the murky waters they call home!

I guess since the potential for albinism is available in any animal then it would be possible to breed an albino or colour morphed Mudpuppy by only breeding the individuals that lack colour or by chance breeding for the rarer genotypes. I don't know much about Mudpuppies, but I don't think they were bred as extensively for research as axolotls, which is perhaps why we have more morphs for axxies - selective breeding.

Mudpuppies look to me like sea serpents, which I know might be considered cool, but they sound a lot more high maintenance to me.

And there is plenty more awesomeness in them...

16) Axolotls can regenerate every part of their body including bones and organs.
17) Axolotls have a unique caudal fin which extends down their entire bodies.
18) Axolotls can grow to be 30 cm long or even longer!
19) Axolotls can morph. (Although we don't encourage it unless the axolotl does it spontaneously, it's still cool to know they have that potential).
20. Spawning and seeing the resulting mix of babies is a magical thing.
21. Tank design! Need I say more?
22. Playing 'spot the axolotl' if you have a melanoid or Wild Type.
23. Seeing beautiful iridophores or gills appear on a juvenile.
24. Coming home from work and seeing them so happy to see you.
25. The 'please sir, may I have some worms?' dance!
26. Having an albino that looks nothing like any other albino colour you've ever seen.
27. Seeing them grip their substrate with tiny toes!
28. Axolotl footprints in sand.
29. Gill flicks!
30. Anddd....slurrrppinnng up worms like spaghetti!

I feel the need to make a couple of points.

2) Axolotls are one of the only animals to be sexually mature and remain in a neonatal stage for their entire lives.

Click to expand...

So do Necturus, and this is not quite as rare as you make it sound. Both facultative and obligate neoteny are widely found among caudates.

3) Axolotls are endangered and by keeping them you are ensuring breeding stock.

Click to expand...

No, you are not, sorry. Captive axolotls are a domesticated population with an artificial introgression with A.mavortium/tigrinum and many derived genes. They have absolutely no value for wild populations just like dogs have no value for wild, wolf populations.

7) They GENUINELY recognise their owners.

Click to expand...

Again, not exclusive of axolotls in any way. This happens with any species.

9) They come in so many beautiful colours.

Click to expand...

Very highly disputable, plus those beautiful colours, come with consequences that are almost never taken into account.

Generally, all the other points while valid are subjective and not exclusive of axolotls. I know i sound like a carmudgeon here, but the list is mostly about the wonders of all things caudate, rather than about axolotls.

You surpass me greatly in knowledge, so I accept my reasons may look a tad sloppy, particularly about species other than axolotls (my knowledge, limited as it is, is solely about axolotls).

I only point out that they are neonatal their entire lives because, no matter how common, it is still an amazing fact. It may be less rare in caudates, but I still find it endearing - I didn't mean to suggest they are the only caudate that do, just that it's amazing, no matter what caudate displays the trait.

You also say that captive bred axolotls have no genetic use for wild populations. My field knowledge of the wild axolotl is rather scant, and I agree that there is evidence for interbreeding with other caudates, but surely, if anything, that has made the captive bred axolotl more adapted? I would also like to say that dogs interbreeding with wolves has caused darker fur colouration - although whether this is helpful for the wolf population is debatable, true. My argument wasn't that we should use axolotls for breeding stock, only that we could, if we needed to, to increase the wild population - although of course the genes we are breeding would need to be carefully considered to ensure that it isn't detrimental to the population.

I also didn't think it was unique that axolotls recognise their owners, only that it's rather sweet that they do - anyone with a dog or cat can tell you that many domesticated animals can recognise their owners. For some odd reason a lot of people I have met seem to believe that axolotls lack the memory to recognise their owner - in the same way that fish are said to have a two second memory. Scientists recently debated that any creature with a learned response - like fish that react when their owners come near - must have memory in order to have a learned response. Again, I am more amazed that it is possible for any caudate to recognise their owners than I am saying it's unique.

I do agree with you on the colours front - I have studied selective breeding in dogs previously, and the results of years of breeding in some breeds shocked me. But I was woefully ignorant of any colour linked genetic disorders in axolotls, and for that I apologise.

I fear I may have misled you - my list was not intended to say that these traits are exclusive to axolotls, only to say that that axolotls do have them.

Can I be cheeky and ask to see a list from yourself, although I know your particular passion includes more than axolotls? I would love to learn more about them rather than the general (and as you have pointed out, slightly half-truth) facts I know.