What do you get when you cross a...?

I recently just bought 2 juvenile axolotls. A wildtype and a leucistic. They're not old enough to sex yet and I'm getting way ahead of myself here but I wanting to learn the BASICS of axolotl color genetics. I know about recessive and dominant genes and how all that works but I dont know how many color genes they have and which genes are dominant/recessive. Could anybody help me out here? I am also going to be purchasing a golden albino and a melanoid juvie here soon so Id love to know about them too! Thanks!

Axolotl genetics have been the most confusing thing ever for me in my life.
I am not going to go into my limited knowledge of genetics of these funny guys as I know for sure there is somebody with far more experience in this topic who I am sure will answer it in great detail. I thought I understood genetics until my melanoid and wild type bred and got such weird offsprings that make no sense in my head!

Re: What do you ger when you cross a...?

For a good starters read this: Axolotls - Genetics and Colour

Then spend hours trying to read all the genetics questions on the forum. Don't expect to understand it all at once.

If you know what your axies' parents and siblings were make a note. If not you'll just have to wait for babies.

The basics:
There are 4 genes for colour, plus GFP
You won't always get whatever the parents are in the babies - sometimes 2 wildtypes will produce a leucistic or albino, sometimes a leucistic and an albino will produce a wildtype. It gets complicated.

Re: What do you ger when you cross a...?

auntiejude said:

For a good starters read this: Axolotls - Genetics and Colour

Then spend hours trying to read all the genetics questions on the forum. Don't expect to understand it all at once.

If you know what your axies' parents and siblings were make a note. If not you'll just have to wait for babies.

Click to expand...

I have actually read that page and some has stuck but I was wondering if their was something simpler and more laid out. Im not sure what their parents are so I guess I will just have to wait and see!

Re: What do you ger when you cross a...?

Veerie said:

I have actually read that page and some has stuck but I was wondering if their was something simpler and more laid out. Im not sure what their parents are so I guess I will just have to wait and see!

Click to expand...

i am an ap bio student with an 88 average for this semester
we just finished genetics
here i go trying to explain:
in axolotls, appearance is influenced by a number of things
melanophores are the dark pigment cells that give wildtypes a darkish color
iridiophores are the silvery flake cells that give axolotls a shine to them
axanthophores are the reddish pigments on the axolotl, most evident on the legs, tail, and gill areas

in axolotls, normal expression of pigment, A, is dominant to albino, a
the recessive albino allele prevents expression of melanophores if they are present

in axolotls, non melanic, M, is dominant to melanoid, m
the recessive melanic allele surpresses iridiophores and increases melanophores

in axolotls, dark color, D, is dominant to white, d
this gene is weird because the D allele codes for production of melanophores, but they will only be expressed if the A allele is present
this explains how leucistics are possible

in axolotls, non axanthic, X, is domimant to axanthic, x
the recessive x allele prevents the formation of axanthophores

so let's start with the simple wildtype
remember, uppercase letter is a dominant allele lowercase letter is recessive and a - indicates the second allele present could be either

a wildtype is dark with no recessive traits expressed so they have at least 1 dominant allele of each
A-M-D-X- would be the phenotype
they have a speckled brown appearance with yellow dots on the side

a normal white albino not only lacks the ability to express pigment, it lacks pigment altogether
like all albinos the eyes are pink or red and the skin is light
aaM-ddX- would be the genotype

a golden albino, the famous goldie, has an interesting property
they are albino but they contain an allele for color
as a result, the number of iridiophores and i think axanthophores (dont quote me on axanthophores though) are greatly increased, so instead of a plain white appearance, the animal is a goldish
aaM-D-X- would be the genotype (burrito's is aaMmDdX-)

a melanic albino has both recessive melanic alleles (melanic and melanoid can be used interchangably)
since they lack the ability to express melanophores, the only effect of the allele is the reduction of iridiophores
they are similar in appearance to white albino but lack any shine to them
aammddX- would be the genotype

an axanthic albino has both recessive axanthic alleles
they lack axanthophores and have a uniform color
aaM-ddxx would be the genotype

a leucistic axolotl has the ability to express melanophores but it cannot produce them
they are a whitish color and their eyes are dark
a few pigment cells may be seen on the head and back
A-M-ddX- would be the genotype

finally, the melanoid axolotl has the recessive melanic allele
the pigment is increased and iridiophores are surpressed
they are very dark in appearance and lack a ring around the eye
A-mmD-X- would be the genotype


i hope this helps

Re: What do you ger when you cross a...?

Veerie said:

I have actually read that page and some has stuck but I was wondering if their was something simpler and more laid out.

Click to expand...

There is no simple answer! It's a complicated subject, and can't really be explained in one paragraph.
Seagull's explanation is good for explaining how the colour genetics work.

But calculating what offspring you would get from any given pairing is dependant on knowing the genotype of each animal. Recessive genes can throw out some unexpected baby colours.

Re: What do you ger when you cross a...?

auntiejude said:

There is no simple answer! It's a complicated subject, and can't really be explained in one paragraph.
Seagull's explanation is good for explaining how the colour genetics work.

But calculating what offspring you would get from any given pairing is dependant on knowing the genotype of each animal. Recessive genes can throw out some unexpected baby colours.

Click to expand...

one thing you could do to predict something is to set up punnet squares
i recommend setting up a new square for each trait just to avoid a complex tetrahybrid cross
you may not know the full genotypes of each parent but if either have any recessive traits u can start with those
if u cross 2 wildtypes that r heterozygous for all 4 traits, every color morph is possible
remember though that probability is different than what will actually happen
there could be a 99% chance that an albino will result from a pairing but when the pairing occurs and hundreds of eggs result, it is possible for no albinos to occur

Re: What do you ger when you cross a...?

seagull said:

i am an ap bio student with an 88 average for this semester
we just finished genetics
here i go trying to explain:
in axolotls, appearance is influenced by a number of things
melanophores are the dark pigment cells that give wildtypes a darkish color
iridiophores are the silvery flake cells that give axolotls a shine to them
axanthophores are the reddish pigments on the axolotl, most evident on the legs, tail, and gill areas

in axolotls, normal expression of pigment, A, is dominant to albino, a
the recessive albino allele prevents expression of melanophores if they are present

in axolotls, non melanic, M, is dominant to melanoid, m
the recessive melanic allele surpresses iridiophores and increases melanophores

in axolotls, dark color, D, is dominant to white, d
this gene is weird because the D allele codes for production of melanophores, but they will only be expressed if the A allele is present
this explains how leucistics are possible

in axolotls, non axanthic, X, is domimant to axanthic, x
the recessive x allele prevents the formation of axanthophores

so let's start with the simple wildtype
remember, uppercase letter is a dominant allele lowercase letter is recessive and a - indicates the second allele present could be either

a wildtype is dark with no recessive traits expressed so they have at least 1 dominant allele of each
A-M-D-X- would be the phenotype
they have a speckled brown appearance with yellow dots on the side

a normal white albino not only lacks the ability to express pigment, it lacks pigment altogether
like all albinos the eyes are pink or red and the skin is light
aaM-ddX- would be the genotype

a golden albino, the famous goldie, has an interesting property
they are albino but they contain an allele for color
as a result, the number of iridiophores and i think axanthophores (dont quote me on axanthophores though) are greatly increased, so instead of a plain white appearance, the animal is a goldish
aaM-D-X- would be the genotype (burrito's is aaMmDdX-)

a melanic albino has both recessive melanic alleles (melanic and melanoid can be used interchangably)
since they lack the ability to express melanophores, the only effect of the allele is the reduction of iridiophores
they are similar in appearance to white albino but lack any shine to them
aammddX- would be the genotype

an axanthic albino has both recessive axanthic alleles
they lack axanthophores and have a uniform color
aaM-ddxx would be the genotype

a leucistic axolotl has the ability to express melanophores but it cannot produce them
they are a whitish color and their eyes are dark
a few pigment cells may be seen on the head and back
A-M-ddX- would be the genotype

finally, the melanoid axolotl has the recessive melanic allele
the pigment is increased and iridiophores are surpressed
they are very dark in appearance and lack a ring around the eye
A-mmD-X- would be the genotype


i hope this helps

Click to expand...

Err....Ummm....OK....

I've got it now (I haven't)

Re: What do you ger when you cross a...?

axowattyl said:

Err....Ummm....OK....

I've got it now (I haven't)

Click to expand...

i can only try :/

Re: What do you ger when you cross a...?

seagull said:

i can only try :/

Click to expand...

Of course, and you've explained in detail.

I'm just too dumb to get my head around genetics it seems.

I had the same problem with genetics in chicken...I just never quite grasped it.