Why can't we move Axolotls to a new habitat

Yevgeniy matsay · Jan 26, 2014

I was watching this documatery that Axolotl's home is so dirty. And the axolotl is going to extinct. So why cant we breed wild axolotl and move the Babies to a new habitat. Like a river in America or other part of mexico. Then population will be good. Please tell me why people think this is a bad idea? Thanks

Boomsloth · Jan 26, 2014

Re: Why cant we move Axolotl's to a new habitat

The problem with this is that whatever habitat we choose for them they will be invading some other species' habitat. There is the small risk that they will become established and then migrate out to other areas. Axolotl's as a species are pretty safe considering they are very numerous in the pet trade. As long as there are many wildtypes with genetic variability we can guarantee their survival.

Skudo09 · Jan 26, 2014

Re: Why cant we move Axolotl's to a new habitat

There would be a number of factors that would need careful consideration. Whether the chosen environment would be suitable for axolotls, what impact will the axolotls have when introduced to that new environment etc. Where I live in Australia we now require a licence to keep axolotls as pets. This was brought in as supposedly there have been several incidents where people have released axolotls into local waterways (mainly lakes). Mind you I am pretty surprised that axolotls could actually successfully take off in the lakes here. They are full of carp and are not very clean lakes. I don't know if this was the only reason for introducing a licence but it is what I have heard.

Maybe though a. new lake could be constructed in Mexico and become an axolotl sanctuary.

It is sad they are on the brink of extinction I the wild. But at least we might be able to ensure their survival in captivity with a strong gene pool.

HayleyK · Jan 26, 2014

Re: Why cant we move Axolotl's to a new habitat

Skudo09 said:
Where I live in Australia we now require a licence to keep axolotls as pets.

Mind you I am pretty surprised that axolotls could actually successfully take off in the lakes here. They are full of carp and are not very clean lakes.

Does this apply to all of Australia? I don't have a license, I've only heard of reptile licenses.

I would imagine our lakes would get kind of hot too (depending where the lakes are situated).

auntiejude · Jan 26, 2014

Re: Why cant we move Axolotl's to a new habitat

Have you not seen Jurassic Park? "Oh no, dinosaurs are extinct, lets artificially breed some and put them in a safe place". Yeah I know thats fiction, but there are plenty of real cases. Look up red and grey squrrels in the UK and see what happened when a few 'pets' got loose.

On a realistic note they could displace native species - as has happened in dozens of other cases. Or destroy food species, or introduce new diseases. Or hybridise with native populations. Any captive release programs have to be handled by experts. Can you imagine a bunch of pet axies being released into a lake? They all be up at the edge waiting for someone to bring them worms!

As already mentioned, we can keep axies in captivity and preserve the species. And if/when we get the planet cleaned up we can think about putting them back.

Skudo09 · Jan 26, 2014

Re: Why cant we move Axolotl's to a new habitat

hayleykahnita said:
Does this apply to all of Australia? I don't have a license, I've only heard of reptile licenses.

I would imagine our lakes would get kind of hot too (depending where the lakes are situated).

No, just in the ACT as far as I know.

A licence is required to sell or keep them here.

I would imagine the lakes here probably would get too warm in Summer.

Skudo09 · Jan 26, 2014

Re: Why cant we move Axolotl's to a new habitat

auntiejude said:
Have you not seen Jurassic Park? "Oh no, dinosaurs are extinct, lets artificially breed some and put them in a safe place". Yeah I know thats fiction, but there are plenty of real cases. Look up red and grey squrrels in the UK and see what happened when a few 'pets' got loose.

On a realistic note they could displace native species - as has happened in dozens of other cases. Or destroy food species, or introduce new diseases. Or hybridise with native populations. Any captive release programs have to be handled by experts. Can you imagine a bunch of pet axies being released into a lake? They all be up at the edge waiting for someone to bring them worms!

As already mentioned, we can keep axies in captivity and preserve the species. And if/when we get the planet cleaned up we can think about putting them back.

I agree, it is best left to the experts. There are so many factors in relocating a species and it would be far from easy. I think that it is better to work on restoring their natural native environment than to risk introducing them to a non native environment. A lake constructed as an axolotl sanctuary close to their natural home might be an option. Though it would have to be very well thought out by experts in the field.

Boomsloth · Jan 26, 2014

Re: Why cant we move Axolotl's to a new habitat

Another point I forgot to mention is the likely hood that this "new" population of axolotls might change to better suite their new environment resulting in axolotls that are slightly different from the original species. Interesting but not ideal.

arrowwood · Jan 26, 2014

Re: Why cant we move Axolotl's to a new habitat

My understanding is that most of the ones in captivity are descendants of a very small group that was sent to Europe long ago. Hence the axies in captivity are a different population. Because if this inbreeding, they lack the strong immune system of the wild axies but we also have the nice color morphs.

There is a university in Mexico city breeding lake xochimilco wild caught axies for reintroduction.

Interestingly, the shipment to Europe was before lake chalco was drained, so the captive population may also have genetics that the wild population no longer has.

Boomsloth · Jan 26, 2014

Arrowwood is right. A majority of the axolotl variety we know in the pet trade come from inbreeding for specific colors from all different locations. I'm almost positive that the albino gene is actually a result from hybrids with albino tiger salamanders while leucistic developed in france.

bugdozer · Jan 27, 2014

Boomsloth said:
Arrowwood is right. A majority of the axolotl variety we know in the pet trade come from inbreeding for specific colors from all different locations. I'm almost positive that the albino gene is actually a result from hybrids with albino tiger salamanders while leucistic developed in france.

Can tiger salamanders breed when they are in larval form? I thought they had to metamorphose first.

auntiejude · Jan 27, 2014

bugdozer said:
Can tiger salamanders breed when they are in larval form? I thought they had to metamorphose first.

Salamanders only breed once they have morphed. The albino was created with a femaleTiger Salamander artificially inseminated with male axolotl sperm.

Yevgeniy matsay · Jan 27, 2014

Guys don't you think it's impossible to restore the axies natural habitat? You should see the video their habitat is disgusting. The water smells and its probably sewage water and there's an African fish eating he axies young. We should start looking for a new habitat for them because there's no way to restore it.

DanielL · Jan 27, 2014

I don't think captive breeding without links to official conversation in Mexico is doing much good to be honest.

Skudo09 · Jan 28, 2014

It certainly would be far from easy to restore their natural habitat. It would need a lot of work done to remove the pest fish species, clean up the pollution etc and all members of the community would need to be on board in restoration of their habitat. I doubt this would happen and it certainly won't happen over night but I wouldn't say completely impossible. Hence why maybe construction of an "axolotl sanctuary" somewhere in Mexico separate to their natural habitat where they can be protected might be a better option for the wild axolotls future. This way they are at least the closest possible to the native environment and there would be less risk of causing issues with introducing a non native species.

I think it is great though that there are groups dedicated to breeding and conservation programs in Mexico. At least they have not been given up on.

Nijinski · Jan 28, 2014

I think it's important to think about the other wildlife in the potential new habitats, also. In the UK, we have far fewer insects than we used to, due to increased reliance on pesticides, which also in turn enter our waterways. We are not the only country with this issue either. Add to that rising levels of pollution and industrialisation of rural areas and you have a situation where the native wildlife is already fighting for survival. Add in another animal that eats insects, fry, etc. and you have a recipe for potential disaster.

It's an awesome idea in *theory*, but really what needs to happen is for their original habitat to be restored. It's really good to hear about the university breeding programme - that's exactly what needs to happen. I'd love to see a 'true' wild axie, see the differences in behaviour and appearance.

sde · Jan 28, 2014

auntiejude said:
Salamanders only breed once they have morphed. The albino was created with a femaleTiger Salamander artificially inseminated with male axolotl sperm.

No, that is not true. Lots of species stay in the larval form and can reproduce and are fully mature. This is called neoteny. It accurse mainly ( and solely? ) in Ambystomas. Tiger sals can be this way too, and it is fairly common. Essentially that is what axis are as well.

bugdozer · Jan 28, 2014

Skudo09 said:
It certainly would be far from easy to restore their natural habitat. It would need a lot of work done to remove the pest fish species, clean up the pollution etc and all members of the community would need to be on board in restoration of their habitat. I doubt this would happen and it certainly won't happen over night but I wouldn't say completely impossible. Hence why maybe construction of an "axolotl sanctuary" somewhere in Mexico separate to their natural habitat where they can be protected might be a better option for the wild axolotls future. This way they are at least the closest possible to the native environment and there would be less risk of causing issues with introducing a non native species.

I think it is great though that there are groups dedicated to breeding and conservation programs in Mexico. At least they have not been given up on.

Having seen a documentary about what the Mexicans have done to the axolotl's habitat, how they have reduced it from two large lakes to just one system of grubby canals, into which they allow the flow of sewage and chemical products, if there is to be an axolotl sanctuary area set up, it should not be in Mexico.
The Mexicans and their government have had the chance to look after an critically endangered species. They could have taken steps to protect its habitat, but nothing was done, because Central American governments care nothing for the environment, on the whole. Saving axolotls would make them no money.
The Mexicans no longer deserve to be the guardians of the axolotl in the wild. They have wilfully pushed it to the brink of extinction, like someone with liver damage continuing to slug down whisky. They had their chance and they blew it.

Skudo09 · Jan 29, 2014

bugdozer said:
Having seen a documentary about what the Mexicans have done to the axolotl's habitat, how they have reduced it from two large lakes to just one system of grubby canals, into which they allow the flow of sewage and chemical products, if there is to be an axolotl sanctuary area set up, it should not be in Mexico.
The Mexicans and their government have had the chance to look after an critically endangered species. They could have taken steps to protect its habitat, but nothing was done, because Central American governments care nothing for the environment, on the whole. Saving axolotls would make them no money.
The Mexicans no longer deserve to be the guardians of the axolotl in the wild. They have wilfully pushed it to the brink of extinction, like someone with liver damage continuing to slug down whisky. They had their chance and they blew it.

I don't think the destruction of habitats and the decline in the number of endangered species is unique to Mexico. This type of habitat destruction is occurring all over the world and many species, not just axolotls, are becoming endangered or closer to extinction as a result. Therefore, I don't think that taking the responsibility away from a community would solve any issues. I think it is better to work with the community. Education and awareness is key and teaching future generations on the importance of looking after the environment and conservation of species, particularly those vulnerable to extinction.

I would expect that an axolotl sanctuary would have to be some distance from Mexico to prevent the destruction of the new habitat. However I think it is important that it is as close as possible to their native habitat. As already mentioned, it would have to be well thought out and planned by experts in the field.

axowattyl · Jan 29, 2014

Don't know if you've noticed, but Mexico is on the verge of becoming a failed state.

Government funding for a sanctuary will just not happen, but if you can teach them to swallow a bag of coke and swim to the US I'm sure a few cartels might help out with a top notch facility.

Why can't we move Axolotls to a new habitat

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