Nick Baker Axolotl Documentary

Wow! Thanks for sharing this :) I had a horrible time trying to find it. I couldn't find a place to buy it anywhere :S
 
Yes I saw this it's pretty good enjoyed it but I want more is this the only one all documentary s iv seen are all about fish I can't put in a tank what about fire eels of Africa leaf fish or dinosaur birch guppies even the fish I really need information on Im limited to petsmart and wow how do you work in a fish store and know NOTHING about them
 
The researchers have them all housed on gravel?!
 
Ya I saw the gravel and was confused about it as well.

Hey is there any way if my axies breed instead of keeping , selling or killing (by the freezing method) the eggs or juveniles can I send them for the purpose of trying to repopulate their natural environment and yes I know pollution and introduced fish if I remember correctly carp are mainly the cause of their shrinking numbers but I don't like the idea that there just gone in the wild and get over it I would like to try anything I can to help anyone else think about this or have any knowledge on the subject
 
I appreciate your thoughts, Shivermetim, and you certainly wouldn't be the first to think that perhaps, rather than wasting precious axolotl babies, we could use them to reintroduce the axolotl to Mexico.

The reason I have always been told that this is not done is because the axolotls used in the breeding programme come from wild stock - although, I am not sure, they may have also used some domestic axolotls as well. The issue is that pet axolotls are not really 'true' axolotls, as they have many mixed genes - there is some belief that the original 'albino' axolotls, supposedly descended from a single Leucistic pair (odd, since Leucistics are not technically albinos) had Tiger Salamander ancestry. Add to this that many pet axolotls are, to a greater or lesser extent, inbred - just look at my accidental mating between a direct brother and sister, which I rescued from another owner and did not realise were related until after my clutch was well on its way to maturity.

I have always thought that the reason pet axolotls are not reintroduced into the wild population is to prevent dilution of the true axolotl genetics and makeup, not to mention keeping the wild population as free from disease as possible.

I think I also read recently that the axolotl is not technically extinct, just endangered. Apparently a recent scouring of the river did turn up one or two, but you wouldn't be the first to be moved by this documentary and to be inspired to do something about it, and that's great. Inspiration is the first step to change.

Please correct me if any of the science above is incorrect or erroneous. If I don't use knowledge for a while it tends to 'blend' and I forget some of the particulars.
 
Arg well humm I do understand that logic as long as they are not truly extinct we should try for keeping them to a true form and you can argue we have done enough damage and should stop mucking around with things so we don't make it worse but it just seems a shame and a waste of a beautiful creature even if it is "dulled" genetically maby one of the mutants would be able to get a foothold that the rest can use to crawl out of this grave we have dug for them and I'm not trying to be grim just tired of sitting around watching things I grew up with disappear and you don't find out what you can do without asking questions and talking about solutions for problems are carp eggs on the food list for axolotls?
 
And before introducing in to the wild a station with tanks for isolation and observation yes you're talking people to man the place and money to fund and now there's the reality of these poor guy's having a bumpy road but personally to save humanity if you were asked would you honestly say na it's to hard and painful I'd rather we all die out im probably ranting and im sorry if im being annoying or not making much sense I don't own a computer and I'm stuck with a little phone to work with
 
What kind and how bad of genetic damage is there because they don't look much different from any i have seen of the wild type (not coloration im talking of one caught out of the wild) and old photos not that i have done a lot of research or have a lot of experience in the matter please correct me if I am wrong
 
Just because something doesn't look different does not mean it is not genetically different - phenotype and genotype operate subtly. No offence, but if you've ever seen a F1 wolfdog, you could argue it doesn't look 'much different,' but in fact, you have thousands of years of selective breeding on one side of its heritage and goodness knows what kind of breeding on the other. I can see your point - any axolotls are better than none, right? - but the issue is not the actual number or type of axolotls in their native home. It is the home that is the issue. Lake Xochimilco (I hope I have spelt that correctly) is full of human activity, waste from farming on 'water gardens,' and pumped full of sewage from Mexico City - hence why they only found one on the old Olympic Rowing Course, and why one researcher claimed that the axolotl Mr Baker found was not technically part of the wild cohort, because it was not in what was deemed that axolotl's 'usual' habitat.

While you are correct that our 'mutant' or captive bred axolotls may well have some kind of genetic trait that might help the wild population, I can't help thinking that natural selection should play more of a part in that than humans - we have not had the natural processes that would 'weed out' undesirable traits. Indeed, some people might support the undesirable traits by breeding for them. And with all due respect, I think the fact that some of them glow under black light, are colours that would stand out a mile off underwater, and might have scads of underlying recessive genes leading to issues probably puts researchers off using them.

I don't mean to be rude, I love the fact you are passionate about this, but surely if we were to save the wild axolotl, we would have to sort out its habitat first? Moreover, the researchers are using good, solid stock, and an established, healthy breeding female can produce over 1,000 eggs per clutch. I'm not sure its the frequency of the animals that is the issue. I believe it to be the habitat that is causing the problem. I don't believe it is a matter of 'nah, too much hassle.' It's a matter of, 'it's a lot of money, needs a lot of people, and those that might help might not necessarily be able to get over there.' It's also worth remembering that a lot of zoos and aquariums won't display or even raise axolotls because they are so numerous in the pet trade - even though I know a herpetologist who disagrees with this, since you can 'breed out' by using unrelated stock, which is exactly what he is doing. But even if we had super axolotls who would take to the Lake like...well, fish to water, you would still have the issue that the Lake is pretty contaminated.

So I guess the problem is twofold. I know someone trying to do something about it - no matter how small - but the simple fact is that clearing up the Lake would take a lot of pressure, probably from the people who matter most to the local Government - the local people. You could, by all means, raise awareness and do what you can. The hard part is knowing what we can do.

PS I am not sure about carp eggs as food. Hopefully someone on the board will know a little more :)
 
Thank you for your most excellent response very well put well I guess if it was a simple problem is would have been fixed by now humm im going to need a bigger drawing board
 
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  • Shane douglas:
    with axolotls would I basically have to keep buying and buying new axolotls to prevent inbred breeding which costs a lot of money??
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  • Thorninmyside:
    Not necessarily but if you’re wanting to continue to grow your breeding capacity then yes. Breeding axolotls isn’t a cheap hobby nor is it a get rich quick scheme. It costs a lot of money and time and deditcation
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  • stanleyc:
    @Thorninmyside, I Lauren chen
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  • Clareclare:
    Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus Japanese . I'm raising them and have abandoned the terrarium at about 5 months old and switched to the aquatic setups you describe. I'm wondering if I could do this as soon as they morph?
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    Clareclare: Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus... +1
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