Question: Cycling Issue Persistent

A

ashmor604

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Chicago, IL
Country
United States
So I posted in here about 3 days ago regarding my issue with cycling. I have a 20 gallon long that I have been trying to cycle with my 2 axies in there (long story). I have also kept a 5 and 1/2 gallon long tank running with some ghost shrimp in it that I was able to cycle in about a week by raising the temperature slightly with a small aquarium heater. The temperature in the small tank is now the same as the big tank. I put the filter from the small tank in the big tank to try to seed the cycle (along with their regular sponge filter) and have kept it running in there for two days but my parameters in the big tank are still:

Temp - 67F
PH - 7.6
Ammonia - 1
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 0

I do 20% percent daily water changes in the big tank using Aqueon water conditioner and test daily with an API master kit. I'm thinking of temporarily putting my axies in the small tank (which has a new filter in it and is still cycled) so I can temporarily raise the temp in the big tank and get it cycled without stressing them out.

Parameters of small tank:

Temp - 67F
PH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 5-10ppm

Does anyone think this is a good idea or should I just wait for the big tank to (hopefully) run its course?

Sorry if this was confusing, and thanks in advance for your help.
 
ashmor604 said:
So I posted in here about 3 days ago regarding my issue with cycling. I have a 20 gallon long that I have been trying to cycle with my 2 axies in there (long story). I have also kept a 5 and 1/2 gallon long tank running with some ghost shrimp in it that I was able to cycle in about a week by raising the temperature slightly with a small aquarium heater. The temperature in the small tank is now the same as the big tank. I put the filter from the small tank in the big tank to try to seed the cycle (along with their regular sponge filter) and have kept it running in there for two days but my parameters in the big tank are still:

Temp - 67F
PH - 7.6
Ammonia - 1
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 0

I do 20% percent daily water changes in the big tank using Aqueon water conditioner and test daily with an API master kit. I'm thinking of temporarily putting my axies in the small tank (which has a new filter in it and is still cycled) so I can temporarily raise the temp in the big tank and get it cycled without stressing them out.

Parameters of small tank:

Temp - 67F
PH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 5-10ppm

Does anyone think this is a good idea or should I just wait for the big tank to (hopefully) run its course?

Sorry if this was confusing, and thanks in advance for your help.
Click to expand...
You will need to wait for the big tank to cycle, it looks like it just started. Its better to keep the axolotls in the larger tank instead of stressing them in the small one. This also helps you finish cycling the tank to handle the actual bioload of the axolotls. You can try to seed the tank using some of the media from the 5.5 gallon but you need to make sure you put the old media WITH the new media. This allows the bacteria colony to transfer over. It'll take some time and the daily water changes are a must.

Also if you add the axolotls to the 5.5 it will still cause an ammonia spike since that tank has only been cycling with ghost shrimp.
 
Yeah this makes sense. I don't mind testing and doing water changes everyday, I guess I'm just getting impatient and worried about them being in with ammonia. I'll leave them in the big tank with both the old filter from the small tank and their regular filter and see how it goes. Thanks for your help!
 
ashmor604 said:
Yeah this makes sense. I don't mind testing and doing water changes everyday, I guess I'm just getting impatient and worried about them being in with ammonia. I'll leave them in the big tank with both the old filter from the small tank and their regular filter and see how it goes. Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...

Being patient is the hard part. I spent all of december cycling my tank for my new axolotls only to have the power go out while I was away and having the filter dry out. Its a pain with the water changes but the alternative is sick axolotls. keep the ammonia and nitrate below 0.25 and it should hopefully take around 4 weeks for it to cycle completely.
 
Are you keeping the Axolotls themselves at 67 degrees? Or did I read that wrong? That's a little high for them. You should keep the temperature lower (in the healthy range for Axolotls) even if it will slow down your cycle.

But as boomsloth said, it takes patience. Even seeding a tank it still takes a few weeks to establish.
 
67 degrees Farenheit (19C) is too high? Everything I've read so far has said that anything below 70F is generally okay and to only worry if it gets higher than that. Did I gravely misunderstand something?
 
ashmor604 said:
67 degrees Farenheit (19C) is too high? Everything I've read so far has said that anything below 70F is generally okay and to only worry if it gets higher than that. Did I gravely misunderstand something?
Click to expand...

67 (19.4c) seems a little high to me? Maybe that's just me, but my usual advice is to keep a lotl 60-64 degrees at all times. 15-18c is what I usually see as the range in Celsius? I have the hardest time converting them back and fourth lD

I definitely wouldn't say 67 is DANGEROUSLY high, just a little. I think the consensus is that anything over 70 is dangerous and that's where you got that number? Anything over 75 is considered critical.


I don't know, anyone else want to weigh in? Is 19-20c acceptable in the long term? I've seen SO MANY different temperature ranges x.X; Genuinely curious now.
 
20C is considered the upper limit for axies, over 24C will significantly stress them.

My tank runs at 18-19C in the winter with central heating, 15-18C in spring and autumn, and whatever I can keep it down to in summer. 67F is reasonable.
 
I'm new to this, so maybe my source isn't the greatest but this is what I was going off of (from axolotl.org):

Always use an aquarium thermometer. The water should be kept between 10 and 20 °C (50-68 °F). Anything below about 10 °C leads to more sluggish activity and a lower metabolism. At lower temperatures, axolotls will eat less frequently. They may even refuse food altogether. It should be noted though that axolotls don't "hibernate" in the sense applied to most animals - they simply have reduced metabolism.

Above 24 °C, axolotls become stressed, and such warm conditions will usually result in disease if sustained for a several days. Temperature fluctuations of more than a few degrees Celsius in a 12 hour period (between night and day) can also be stressful. It's a good idea to keep the temperature stable on a day-to-day basis, even if it varies over the year with the seasons.

Edit: thanks auntiejude! I guess I'm okay then for now.
 
67 is perfectly acceptable. Basically the reason it's taking forever is because by doing water changes you are causing the bacteria to grow slower because there is less nutrients available to them. Obviously you can't stop doing the water changes because you would then be exposing the axolotls to ammonia. You have three options:

1) continue doing what you're doing and let it cycle itself slowly

2) seed the tank with material from an established tank. Your shrimp tank probably doesn't have a lot of beneficial bacteria because shrimp have a very low bioload. Does a friend have a fish tank up and running? A handful of gravel from cycled tank put into a nylon and sunk into your tank by the filter will do wonders.

3) get a bunch of plants to use up the nutrients. Your tank will cycle even slower because the plants will be competing with the bacteria for nutrients, but less work on your part.


Personally I'd go with number two. If that's not an option if go with three. A combination of both would be ideal.
 
auntiejude said:
20C is considered the upper limit for axies, over 24C will significantly stress them.

My tank runs at 18-19C in the winter with central heating, 15-18C in spring and autumn, and whatever I can keep it down to in summer. 67F is reasonable.
Click to expand...

Yep, okay! Thanks for clearing that up c:
 
My tank sits at 23 degrees, and some times goes up to 26 degrees,
my water is very clean, and I do a 20% water change at least 3 times a week to keep it this way,

I know that many sites say that you need to keep the water cold for Axies, but mine are not battling at all and they are perfectly happy. They don't have any signs of stress, they are eating twice a day (I feed them more because its slightly warmer) and they are the happiest things possible.

I cannot keep my temperature down lower than 23 degrees unless I buy a chiller, so instead - I bought an aircon so we could all benefit from the coolness hahaha

Bare in mind, we are now in the hottest part of the year - so the 23 degrees isnt too bad - things are cooling down now and I am sure before long it will be down to 20

just my 2 cents worth :)
 
leandrah said:
My tank sits at 23 degrees, and some times goes up to 26 degrees,
my water is very clean, and I do a 20% water change at least 3 times a week to keep it this way,
Click to expand...

I believe you are the exception as most axolotls would likely develop an illnesses if kept at those temperatures. For example, Ambystoma states "They should never be kept above about 22°C (72°F). Too warm temperatures are dangerous for axolotls."

Your success might be due to the water quality and their age, juveniles.
 
Elise said:
I believe you are the exception as most axolotls would likely develop an illnesses if kept at those temperatures. For example, Ambystoma states "They should never be kept above about 22°C (72°F). Too warm temperatures are dangerous for axolotls."

Your success might be due to the water quality and their age, juveniles.
Click to expand...

I am only guessing here, but juveniles might be better able to tolerate slightly higher temperatures since eggs are laid in the winter, hatched then the babies develop from the spring until the summer months. But I would think that like frogs and other amphibians the tadpole and juveniles would stay to the vegetation in the shallow (warmer) area while the adults move around in the cooler depths. however I am not saying that you should keep your juveniles or any axolotl in warmer water.
 
Also, these babies were born and bred in South Africa, so they might have been born into the warm conditions, we also don't know how many of their parents were born and bred here - so they might actually be used to it.

Another thing is, I do 20% water changes 3 times a week - so my water is very healthy and very clean.
Its funny, but mine are also not sensitive to light at all, they swim around when the lights are on and they don't seem too phased by it - maybe they grew up with lights
 
What are your parameters. You were reporting low ammonia and zero nitrite/nitrate readings just four days ago. It is unlikely your tank is cycled. Four days just isn't enough time for ammonia to rise and fall, nitrite to rise and fall, and for nitrates to appear.
 
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20
Temp - 66F

The tank has been up and running for about five weeks and these levels have been stable since I posted the update (I've been obsessively monitoring it). So I think I'm good! :eek:

Edit: I also seeded it with two extra filters (With splash guards) from my other cycled tank so that might have helped make it happen quicker) I got a betta for my other tank and put one filter back in there and I'm currently running my sponge filter and the other small 5gal filter in there just to be sure.
 
Well that explains it. You should have mentioned that lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • Shane douglas:
    with axolotls would I basically have to keep buying and buying new axolotls to prevent inbred breeding which costs a lot of money??
     +1
    Unlike
  • Thorninmyside:
    Not necessarily but if you’re wanting to continue to grow your breeding capacity then yes. Breeding axolotls isn’t a cheap hobby nor is it a get rich quick scheme. It costs a lot of money and time and deditcation
     +1
    Unlike
  • stanleyc:
    @Thorninmyside, I Lauren chen
     +1
    Unlike
  • Clareclare:
    Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus Japanese . I'm raising them and have abandoned the terrarium at about 5 months old and switched to the aquatic setups you describe. I'm wondering if I could do this as soon as they morph?
     +1
    Unlike
    Clareclare: Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus... +1
    Back
    Top