Help! Sickly axies!

jakeztheone · Mar 4, 2014

Hi everyone! I need some help:
I had 4 axies, Pac-O, 2Pac-O, The Third Pac-O, and QuattroPac-O. For the last week they haven't been eating properly. I woke up Saturday and Their Third Pac-O had died

I noticed a spot on Pac-O and then another on QuattroPac-O.

I've been trying to find an answer and be accepted to this board since Saturday. Was thinking this may be septicemia or fungal so I started daily salt baths on Saturday and began keeping them in the fridge. I've also read about tea baths. I need some help so my little Pac-Os make it through this. I also purchased some API Triple Sulfa, says it treats the septicemia but I'm weary about using it on my Pac-Os.

Heeeeeelllllp please!! Thank you!

Velice · Mar 4, 2014

Do you keep any other species with your axolotls?

Kaini · Mar 4, 2014

How big is their tank? Water temperature? What are the water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate?) More information about their setup would help us find the problem.

I wouldn't use any kind of treatment until you know exactly what is wrong and what is in the treatment, since a lot of treatments for fish are toxic to axolotls.

EmbryH · Mar 4, 2014

Kaini said:
How big is their tank? Water temperature? What are the water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate?) More information about their setup would help us find the problem.

I wouldn't use any kind of treatment until you know exactly what is wrong and what is in the treatment, since a lot of treatments for fish are toxic to axolotls.

Agreed. ALWAYS see a vet before using any kind of medicine. Also you shouldn't be doing salt baths unless you know it's fungus, which it doesn't look like any fungus I've seen before.

I'd go to a vet and have them checked out. If this was serious enough to kill one of them, they need professional medical attention.

In the mean time, give us details about their tank, how you're keeping them, what you're feeding them, ect.

jakeztheone · Mar 4, 2014

Thanks! They are still in the fridge.
My water parameters wouldn't be accurate right now because I did a complete water change when I took them out.
The babies tank is a 30gallon, water temp is usually right about 68-70degrees.
I had some feeder fish in with them *which I've learned over the last few days may have caused this and is def a no-no*
All of the feeders were removed about 5 days ago.
They are usually on a diet of brine shrimp, they're so picky! I've tried blood worms and beef heart, but they prefer the brine shrimp. I had also recently tried earthworms and thought maybe that attributed to the problem?

jakeztheone · Mar 4, 2014

I also do a water change of 50% once, sometimes twice a week.

EmbryH · Mar 4, 2014

You should be feeding them earth worms as a staple diet. It's the best thing you can give them.

Blood worms, brine shrimp, and certainly beef hearts aren't appropriate food, the first two only being fit for younger axolotls. Adults need more nutrition than blood worms or brine shrimp can offer, and I'm still mystified as to why people think beef hearts would be a good food option.

The fish may have carried a disease or parasite to your tank, which is why it's important to quarantine them or buy from a trusted clean source when you use feeders. (Following those steps, feeder fish are actually ok in small numbers as an occasional treat.)

jakeztheone · Mar 4, 2014

Ok thank you. Trying to locate a vet in my area but not having luck....

jakeztheone · Mar 4, 2014

EmbryH said:
Blood worms, brine shrimp, and certainly beef hearts aren't appropriate food, the first two only being fit for younger axolotls. Adults need more nutrition than blood worms or brine shrimp can offer, and I'm still mystified as to why people think beef hearts would be a good food option.

I have a fish tank too and have tried many foods, brine shrimp, krill, blood worms, beef heart, some mix (it has scallops and mollusks n stuff), and even tried crickets.

snuggly time · Mar 4, 2014

What species of fish did you have in the tank with them? Was it something that could have sucked (algae eater) on the axolotls skin and taken a layer off?

It reminds me of these threads:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...sick-axolotl/93641-axolotl-looks-scraped.html

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...f58-sick-axolotl/76024-very-very-worried.html

jakeztheone · Mar 4, 2014

My cichlids are in a separate tank. I do have a pleco in w the axies, he's been there since day 1 and I've had them for about 7-8months...

jakeztheone · Mar 4, 2014

Also, don't know if this makes a difference: the white patches, they feel rough. When I ran my finger down the side of their bodies, you feel the slime end where the spot starts and it's just rough feeling. I'm still fridge'ing them and looking for a vet but none in my area seem to want to check out my axies

jakeztheone · Mar 4, 2014

Thank you for that thread. I checked it out and the wounds are similar but not... those almost look like a chunk is missing. I will remove the pleco anyway. In the mean time, does anyone think a tea bath would help, and how do I do it? Should I still keep them in the fridge or move them back to their tank?

Velice · Mar 4, 2014

jakeztheone said:
I will remove the pleco anyway.

I like how left this out when you mentioned feeder fish. If you have a pleco, it probably caused the death of your axolotl.

EmbryH · Mar 4, 2014

You had a pleco in there and just didn't mention it??? You heard the feeder fish were a no-no but you didn't think about the dangers of keeping a pleco in your tank?? Even if it didn't cause these wounds, it's still extremely dangerous to have with axolotls. That's basic knowledge.

How many people will have to learn the hard way that things like plecos and other species or even gravel substrates are just time bombs waiting to go off, regardless of how long they've existed like that without an incident? It doesn't matter if you've had them together for 5 months or 5 years. It only takes one incident before you wind up with a dead axolotl.

As is seen here.

Sorry if I sound harsh, really, but this is the kind of situation that I'm getting very tired of seeing.

snuggly time · Mar 4, 2014

Certainly remove the Pleco, I can see how they can easily harm an axolotl.

Tea baths are easy..

Tea bath for axolotls
Contributed by Daniel Weiner, August 2007.

I mainly use teabaths for minor skin problems. It may also be used with fungal problems but on that account I prefer salt baths. Tea has a slightly antifungal and antibacterial effect (resulting from tannins) and additionally it closes the pores in the skin a little bit (mainly resulting from tannin and caffeine). The skin tightens and gets some kind of protective layer, making it harder for fungi and bacteria to intrude the body. On the other hand it makes it harder for salt or medicine to reach pathogens which are already inside the body - that is the reason I do not use it on fungal infections, although a tea bath is sometimes recommended as a cure for fungal infections by some people.

The medication is as follows: I take one bag of black tea without any additional aroma (it is important to use black tea because this kind of tea is fermented and so it has tannins) for every 10 litres of water (preferably used in a quarantine tank). This tea gets dashed with boiling water in a seperate bowl - I leave it there for at least 10 to 15 minutes so the tannins are resolved into the water. The tea has to cool down and is finally added to the quarantine water. After a week I make a bigger change of water (60% at least), the rest of the tea is removed over time by normal water changes. If you have to make more regular water changes (f.i. in a small bowl or tank) the tea concentration can be refilled. As far as I know there are no negative effects even for long term treatment.

A similar effect (although not as strong) may have the addition of dried oak or beech leafs now and then as a precaution.

Indian Almond Leaves would also be effective. When my axolotl had two wounds in his side I floated Indian Almond leaves in his water and I personally believe they helped him and prevented fungal infections.

CJ1981 · Mar 4, 2014

jakeztheone said:
Ok thank you. Trying to locate a vet in my area but not having luck....

Try this link:

Herp Vet Connection

jakeztheone · Mar 4, 2014

Thanks for the tea info.
I left out the pleco being in the tank because I didnt think it was a big deal. I had been told by a couple other people when I first got the axies, that it was ok. Embry, basic knowledge to you, who is apparently a genius in his own mind, is not common knowledge to everyone. I know plenty of other people who keep a pleco w axies and they're fine. Mine is back with fish now and my axies are still chilling in the fridge. I did find a vet but they can't get me in til next week. I guess there is only one vet of the six in the office that will see the lil ones.
Thanks for your help everyone, I'll keep you updated!!

EmbryH · Mar 4, 2014

Then you're speaking to some very uninformed people and you should probably warn them that they're keeping their pets in poor conditions and spreading dangerous misinformation to new keepers. Keeping other species with axolotls is breaking one of the most significant rules of axolotl husbandry. It's not something that only geniuses like myself know, it's something that we try to instill to anyone is even thinking about keeping an axolotl.

This is why extensive research before acquiring an animal is critical, because something like a pleco seems pretty harmless to most people who keep normal aquariums. Obviously not the case with axolotls.

Glad that it's out of the tank now, though. You're willing to make changes to your set up for your axolotl's sake, and that's not something we always see here, so good on you for that at least.

snuggly time · Mar 5, 2014

We've all probably made mistakes in the past with a pet. But now you know, you can help other axolotls and warn their owners that it's not safe.

Perhaps in a week your axies will be looking much better. They are amazing healers. Good luck with the tea baths!

Help! Sickly axies!

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