Transporting Axolotls

I have read through a lot about transporting axolotls but would like advice specific to my situation.
In just over a month I will be moving from Canterbury to Bristol by train, a journey that takes just under 4 hours. I currently have one adult axolotl (23cm), and two juveniles (11cm at the moment, but will probably be around 15cm by the time I move). I may also be getting another axolotl of around 16cm.
From what I've read, they should be able to survive 4 hours without additional oxygen
As I am travelling by train, and need to carry my own stuff, I am relatively limited by space.I have a polystyrene box and 2 transport bags already, and can easily order more bags.

1.
How much water (liters) will each axolotl need in the bag?

2. Should the water be tank water or dechlorinated tap water?

3.
Should the bags be 100% water or have some air space, should any steps be taken to oxygenate the water more?

4.
Should they be kept with ice and/or fridged beforehand to lower their metabolism? Or is that not particularly necessary?

If they are the same bags I brought the juvies to you in, IIRC I put about a third full of water and 2/3rds air in them. By volume, air holds more oxygen than water does, so it's good to have more air than water for a long journey. They were quite big bags too. With less water, you can get more sloshing about though, which runs the risk of stressing or injuring them.
I don't know if I'd be happy to go for 4 hours without opening the bags. Personally I'd wait until they were on the train and then leave the bags open for a bit, as long as you could be confident the water wouldn't spill.
I used clean dechlorinated water temperature matched to their tank to put them in, to minimise waste products in the water during transit. I don't think it matters if you use tank water though, as long as it's cycled there shouldn't be any nasties in it.

bugdozer said:

If they are the same bags I brought the juvies to you in, IIRC I put about a third full of water and 2/3rds air in them. By volume, air holds more oxygen than water does, so it's good to have more air than water for a long journey. They were quite big bags too. With less water, you can get more sloshing about though, which runs the risk of stressing or injuring them.
I don't know if I'd be happy to go for 4 hours without opening the bags. Personally I'd wait until they were on the train and then leave the bags open for a bit, as long as you could be confident the water wouldn't spill.
I used clean dechlorinated water temperature matched to their tank to put them in, to minimise waste products in the water during transit. I don't think it matters if you use tank water though, as long as it's cycled there shouldn't be any nasties in it.

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Yes they are the same bags
Those are my thoughts exactly, I want to maximize oxygen availability but also don't want to much sloshing around, and its a much longer journey this time. Does anyone know which of these takes priority, oxygen or stress?
I would like to let them air on the train but I cannot guarantee that I will be able to.
I think water left to stand/dechlorinate might be optimal as it will contain no waste and be more oxygenated than the tank water.

Little update for bugdozer: The juvi's have grown a lot, almost 12cm long now and seem to be bigger every day! Can't wait to see them with my adult in the 4ft tank back in bristol. Got a divider all set up so she can get used to sharing the tank

Honestly? Id be more worried about stress then oxygen for an axolotl. Someone on ig was so worried because their lotl got "lost" temporarily in transit for 7 days and was alive on delivery! Amazing really.. But temperature and sloshing, keeping them comfortable and like stated above if you could open the bags then I really wouldnt worry about it.

Alkylhalide said:

Honestly? Id be more worried about stress then oxygen for an axolotl. Someone on ig was so worried because their lotl got "lost" temporarily in transit for 7 days and was alive on delivery! Amazing really.. But temperature and sloshing, keeping them comfortable and like stated above if you could open the bags then I really wouldnt worry about it.

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You've not been on a British train, have you? He says 4 hours - it will actually be 8...

I think I'm gonna go with bags, but then put them in a 15L plastic box so that I can open the bags on the train and the box will keep them in place (and contain any leaks).
Still not sure about how much water they will need. My plan is to follow @Bugdozer's advice and fill the bags 1/3 with water, although this wont leave much space for my adult so I might try 1/2 and 1/2 with him and be sure to oxygenate on the train.
I'll use 48 hour old tap water to minimize any waste, but should I also avoid feeding them the day before, to avoid additional waste or is that kind of pissing in the wind?
And what about temperature, I can store them with ice, but should I fridge them before hand? What temperature would be best for a 4 hour journey?
Lastly, I want to transport my external filter too, to use in the new tank. But at the moment, the tank will not have been cycled so I will be relying on the mature media in my current external filter canister. The external filter will be easy to transport as it's designed to be water tight, but will the bacteria survive 4 hours with no new water flow or oxygen supply?

I don't really think it will make much difference if you feed them before travelling or not - they are likely to poop from the stress of moving anyway. Take a turkey baster and dump any poop in an empty water bottle.

Don't fridge them before you travel, the tempeture swing will stress them. If you can keep them in a rigid picnic box or beer cooler it would keep the temperature a little more stable for the journey, but don't use ice as it will cause cold spots. Just try not to let the box sit next to any heaters.

I doubt the bacteria in the filter would survive the journey time, I would save the hassle of carrying the extra weight and take the filter dry. I know it means cycling a tank the other end when you get there, but you'd probably have to do that anyway.

Just a thought, but why not put a few axolotl turds in the water the filter is transported in? Then you have a nice source of ammonia to keep the bacteria alive during transit.

Dont feed the adult for 3 days, the little ones 1-3 days depending on size. Put them in fresh clean water and fill the bag 2/3s with water if not a bit more. If they do go poop you'll want to get it out sooner rather than later, this isn't like cycling a tank. Shipping here can take over a week and if prepped properly they'll be fine. Putting little water in means they'll be thrashing more and stressed out every time you move the wrong way and they get uncovered. For a short trip like this they'll be fine. Keep the lighting minimal and try not to fiddle with the bags, the air doesn't need to be refreshed. I've shipped several sizes and seen professional packing for adults being shipping and this is the same guideline. Good luck with your trip!

When I moved from Glasgow to Yorkshire (5hr car journey) I had each of the axolotls in their own Tupperware tub with fresh cool water, stacked on top of one another with flat pieces of polystyrene packing to stop them rattling and to provide insulation. They were then placed in a meat transportation box (a cool bag with a shoulder strap could work). Turkey baster was on hand to remove poop. I also kept several bottles of fresh dechlorinated water to hand in case of delays, but I had the luxury of being in the car! Not feeding the adult for a day or two is good advice.

Either bags or tubs will be fine, I stressed myself out when I did the move, but there really was little to worry about, they just sat there. Sitting. Probably sleeping. They were not bothered in the slightest.

...Then I had to unpack and set up 5 tanks after playing a festival and driving for 5 hours. That was not a fun day for me, but the axies were unphased!

Good luck!

Thank you very much for your advice. I'll forget about icing and fridging them. It's worrying that the mature media won't survive. Other sources had indicated that as long as they were kept wet, the bacteria would survive the journey, although might suffer a small drop in the population. It said that 4 hours should be fine if the media is kept in a bag with lots of air. I was also considering keeping the bacteria very cold, as this would drastically reduce their life cycle and thus increase the survival time.

NadeZ said:

Thank you very much for your advice. I'll forget about icing and fridging them. It's worrying that the mature media won't survive. Other sources had indicated that as long as they were kept wet, the bacteria would survive the journey, although might suffer a small drop in the population. It said that 4 hours should be fine if the media is kept in a bag with lots of air. I was also considering keeping the bacteria very cold, as this would drastically reduce their life cycle and thus increase the survival time.

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Did you see my suggestion of putting turds in the water with the filter? With a source of ammonia in there, there is no reason they shouldn't survive - from their point of view, it's the same as being in their usual tank. The reason bacteria from filters die off is because people leave them without a food source. So give them a food source.

bugdozer said:

Did you see my suggestion of putting turds in the water with the filter? With a source of ammonia in there, there is no reason they shouldn't survive - from their point of view, it's the same as being in their usual tank. The reason bacteria from filters die off is because people leave them without a food source. So give them a food source.

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Yes, thats a good idea
I agree. Even with no food, the dying bacteria would produce ammonia which would feed the remaining population, so I can't see them just dying off within hours. And a supply of food and oxygen should fuel them and limit them only by build up of waste.

Thought I'd update this, now that I have more details. To get some advice closer to the time.

The Journey Will Be:

20 Min Walk to Station
1 Hour Train to London
5 Min Walk to Platform
15 Min Underground Train
5 Min Walk to Platform
45 Min Wait
2 Hour Train to Bristol
5 Min Drive to House

Total Journey Time: 4:35 Hours, Total Transit Time: 3:50 Hours

Just wanted to make sure that this will be okay for my 3 axolotls. They will each be in 4.5L bags, approximately half filled with water, placed in a padded container. I intend to take the container out on the trains and open the bags to allow gas exchange. When I get home there will be a 200L tank of dechlorinated water waiting.

My questions:
Will the axolotls/filter media survive in confined water for this period?
Will the axolotls survive the sloshing about while walking?
Will the axolotls need any cooling?
When I get home, should I put them straight into the tank? (after letting the bags sit in the water to match the temperatures)

I am particularly worried about the sloshing about while walking between stations, and on the underground. But am also concerned about the temperatures on the train and particularly, again, the underground.

Just carry them carefully when you're walking. Works for me.