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Help! My Tiger Salamander is ill!

gtrheroine

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Hello,

I have a very old Gray Tiger Salamander (16 yr old to be exact).

He has been a very healthy little guy until today when I've noticed he is not using his back legs when he walks. Could this be a stroke?

His eyes are pretty clear and he is responsive to me, yet he has not eaten in a week (he sometimes goes this long without eating (especially if he has molted)). He lives in a split enclosure (half soil, half water).

Does anyone know about these types of symptoms?

Thank you so Much,
Elise
 

gtrheroine

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Also, to update, his legs moved a little bit, but he is not using his legs when he walks.
 

RPM

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I have never experienced these symptoms before. Is it possible his back end had something collapse on it? The best you can do for this 16 yr. old salamander is provide comfort for it in as much of a natural setting as possible. Generally terrestrials do not require a half soil and half water enclosure (usually a moderate sized water dish is adequate), but I wouldn’t make any major changes at this point as it may disturb him more.
 

gtrheroine

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Thanks!

Yes, I have moved him to an all soil setup with a little water dish. He is still very lethargic.

The good news is that I took him to a herpetology vet in Westminster, Maryland called Feathers, Scales, and Tales and I have been given some medications for him. I am giving him an oral syringe of antibiotic (Baytril), eye drops to give 2x, and I am feeding him meat and veggie baby food through a syringe 2x. The blood work will come back soon and I will know what it is- the vet says it is most likely Septicemia (a blood infection) that will be taken care of by the antibiotic.

After these drops, his eye seems better. I will update his progress in a couple days.

Thank you for your advice!
-Elise
 

Ted

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My grey tiger ( 15years old) had similar symptoms once. It seemed like it was difficult for him to walk. I changed the substrate very often and fresh water twice a day and he cleared up.
 

gtrheroine

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I'm glad that the condition cleared up for your salamander! Looks like we are in the geriatric tiger salamanders club! :)

I'm going to make sure that I frequently change the substrate. So far the redness on his back is dissipating a bit and he actually is crawling with all four legs. This made me very happy, but we're not through the woods yet. I can tell that the baby food is giving him more energy (he wasn't eating before and he may not have had the energy to move those back legs).
 

Ted

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That is really great news to hear. Sounds like the old fellow is going to make a comeback. When you have a salamander for so long,dont these guys earn your highest respects!
 

gtrheroine

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Yes they do :) ! I absolutely adore him!

Update: I am worried again about his condition, sorry to say. His legs and tail are limp again- after a week of him crawling away perfectly. Luckily, he is still pretty alert. I'm also still feeding him the baby food 2x a day with the 1x a day Baytril. His skin is a little reddish and he is bulgy on his left bottom side.

I read another person's thread about a newt who had this problem with limp legs and they said it took 3 months to cure. My vet also said that it would take a while with the Baytril, yet I told them he was walking then and now he isn't. I'm calling them tomorrow.

How long did it take for your Sallie to get better? Did your salamander have limp legs as well?

Thanks again :)
 

Ted

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It did take a long time to cure him,and im not so sure he doesn't have some kind of leftover effect still.some days hes very eager to eat and the other days just snubs food .i don't think you can go wrong by keeping him clean with good water,spring water or filtered water that sits for a couple of days coming to temp.keep investigating this I'm really not an expert .the best for you and stay in touch.
 

Ted

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He did have limp like back legs.hard to explain,sort of like he was walking on flypaper,weird and spastic at times.this was last year for me.right now he's doing well,but I never know when something might else might come up.
 

gtrheroine

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Thanks, Ted. Seadog, which is what I call him because I bought him as a "waterdog" and the name stuck, is dragging his legs. It's almost like they are paralyzed, along with his tail. This happened a week ago but it got better and he was using all four legs and his tail. I'm waiting to hear back from my vet and I'm going to suggest a bunch of ideas about treatment.

I'm going to ask about Baytril baths, calcium gluconate for skin to replenish calcium, or maybe to switch to another, stronger antibiotic. We'll see what they say. I'll post what they relay to me. The help sheets here on caudata.org were very informative. What an amazing community.

I'm hoping for the best. I hope your little guy stays happy and healthy- my Seadog became less predictable with older age too. Some days he would snub food, other days he'd be snapping the air for food! I'm hoping he gets back to the days of snapping food, although I'm sure the baby food isn't so bad either.:eek:

-Elise
 

gtrheroine

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Here's a picture of him from a couple days ago. His left eye actually is looking a little better than it is here....
 

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gtrheroine

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1 month update:

My tiger salamander is doing pretty much the same one month later. One thing I have learned is the importance of baby food for a salamander that is not eating. Feeding him with a syringe (.1-1.0 ml syringe) 2x a day with different medications/ supplements has been pretty easy to do. The vet has ruled out septicemia since the routine blood work was normal (I did not do a chem test).

After looking at the x-ray, the vet has narrowed down the diagnosis so far to being spondylosis with possible metabolic bone disorder. It could be something worse with his spine but the only way to find out would be with an MRI or an ultrasound and we are already doing the only things we can do for anything spine related problem anyway. Some fluid was found on the abdomen in the x-ray, but there's no telling what that is.

The main symptom is the loss of using his back legs. So far, he is still pretty chubby a month later, with clear eyes. He's also still digging a lot with his upper half.

For spondylosis we are doing this treatment; although, there is really no cure (his legs may always be this way way now):

1) Beef & Veggie Baby food or Chicken & Veggie Baby food (.5 ml/ccs 2x per day)
2) Calcium Gluconate (.1 ml/ccs 1x per day)
3) Meloxicam (anti-inflammatory to help with movement) (.025-.05 ml/ccs 1x per day)
4) Carnivore Care Powder (vitamin supplement) 1 part powder, 4 parts liquid mixed into .25 ml/cc syringe, only once every 7 days.

For his eye that is not healed yet and still swollen:

1) Baytril (.25 ml/ccs 1x per day)
2) Ofloxacin Eye Drops (1 drop per day)

I have also purchased the Repti-sun 5.0 UVA/UVB lamp and a terrarium hood. I only put the light on him for a couple hours because I've heard mixed things about whether it is good to blast the salamander with too much of this kind of light. My vet told me that the Vitamin d3 and UVA/UVB might help. So far, I'm not seeing results from the lamp.

I would suggest for my friends with geriatric salamanders to give oral calcium gluconate to prevent this from happening. I hope he gets better, but right now my vet tells me we are just trying to keep him comfortable and healthy even though there is no fix.
 

gtrheroine

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3 Month Update on! My Tiger Salamander is ill!

Almost 3 Month Update:

I started to use Repta-Boost (formerly Fluker's Emergency Aid) solely. After using once daily for 3 days, on the 4th day my salamander actually ate a worm! I couldn't believe it! The next day he ate two worms and leaped at his food. This is a good development- he hasn't eaten on his own in over 3 months. I had been feeding veggie & meat baby food with .1 cc of calcium gluconate (only every 3 days.. I reduced it from 2x per day which was way too much) and Owbow Carnivore Care/Critical Care mix but this didn't seem to be making a difference with his appetite.

The Repta-boost has the calcium, D3, etc. that he needs. I mix warm water with the instructed dosage for a 1 gram animal. The box instructed to do so because cold water in the body can lead to distress. Right now I'm going to give him .2 cc every day of Repta-boost and worms every 2 days. It seems to really combat dehydration.

His eye has also healed a lot, I'm still giving him Ofloxacin Eye Drops (1 drop per day). I have finished giving him antibiotics (Baytril). I have stopped with the meloxicam for the time being.

His legs have been moving a lot- he is able to use them (not completely normally). I have been using a Repti-Sun 5.0 light on a timer so he only gets a little bit of the light and D3 but not too much. His tail is being affected by the spondylosis right now, but it isn't too bad. I have been doing a daily, very light circular massage on his little legs to improve circulation and it has made a big improvement. Before I did this his legs were not moving at all. I'm not sure whether the calcium, UVB light, or the massage is doing the trick, or the combination of the three, but I'm just glad he is still able to walk. He is a little bonier in some spots now (I can feel his ribcage and other bones more now when I pick him up), but I imagined this would happen.

I am trying to manage his spondylosis and make sure that he retains his appetite/digestive normalcy. I'm not sure if he is defecating regularly since it is hard to tell, but I'm just guessing that is he has a voracious appetite that his digestive system must be working normally?

Here is a picture of Seadog and the X-ray showing the spondylosis.

Sorry for the crazy detail here, but I'm detailing everything here in case someone else searches the same symptoms.
 

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gtrheroine

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Here are the X-rays. One has an asterisk where the spondylosis is occurring. This was taken about 2 months ago- he is a lot less tubby now!!!
 

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gtrheroine

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Thanks! It has been a long, difficult process. I'm just glad he is eating on his own again. Repta-boost seems to be a great supplement!
 

gtrheroine

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Update 8/4

Not is my tiger salamander dealing with spondylosis and MBD, but he also has had problems with vomiting. I took him to my vet and here are the results.

Vitals: Weighed 90 grams (lost 3 grams since last visit)
Heart and Respiratory check is fine


Complete Blood Panel Results (includes a chem blood panel):
White blood cell count normal
CPK (Muscle Enzymes) are fine
Liver enzymes are elevated to 719 (normal levels are 57 to 152)- this indicates liver disease
Calcium levels are too low= 6.9 (normal levels are 12-17)
Kidney function is good- uric acid level is normal
Protein is low, at 2.3

Stomach Issues/ Vomiting:
my salamander was vomiting up a clear mucus with the food in it (this happened with all the supplement feeding). Luckily, his appetite is back and I can feed worms.
he has since been eating small mealworms; I’m going to give phoenix worms and start topical calcium with a once weekly vitamin supplement if he doesn’t regurgitate it up (carnivore care).
could be caused by liver disease
could be caused be stress or senility
could be ulcer, tumor, blockage, etc.- but tests are evasive and over $300 (ultrasound, MRI, cat-scan, barium series)- they may not be conclusive also.


Spondylosis/MBD/Calcium Regimen
one leg is sticking out very far, while the other is weaker; the tail still bends down a bit
use .1 ccs of topical calcium gluconate every 12 hours
I can still feel phoenix worms along with this treatment
Okay do both for the first few weeks of topical treatment
Okay to feed every 3 days

Eye
This most likely won’t heal
This is a side effect of not having proper calcium, it is swollen and has altered structure of tear duct
He can still see of the eye
Use genteel drops over the counter daily and the antibiotic gentomicin drops once a week
There are no corneal starches

Treatment
We cannot cure liver disease, or spondylosis- we can only control symptoms and keep him comfortable.
Continue eye drops in a new way
2x daily calcium gluconate topical
Continue topical Baytril

To possibly try later:
Adequin for joins in topical form
calcium injections to try
Fermadadine if regurgitation continues, also for an ulcer
Buphenorphine for pain
 

gtrheroine

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Update 11/21:

Today is 8 months into Seadog's illness. So far, he is able to move around the tank well and the curvature in his spine seems to have gone down a bit (although his belly is off the ground a little when he walks). His legs are now equally planted when he walks. I know that MBD causes many changes- but at this stage it seems managable. He is around 70 grams now, but is still plump- the vet thinks that weight loss may somehow be a way for the body to accommodate for the trouble with movement caused by MBD.

I have checked the calcium levels twice with a blood test and they have not improved from the light (Repti-Sun 2.0 now) and the .1ccs twice a day of topical calcium gluconate. My vet has doubled the dose to .2 ccs twice a day.

This lack of improvement may be linked to liver disease, which can only be treated with oral medication. I want to avoid oral medication because it causes him to vomit and suffer. I'm still wondering if there is some topical or injectable liver treatment that my vet doesn't know of (I have posted a separate thread on this as well).

Thank You
 

gtrheroine

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No More UVA/UVB Light ( Help! My Tiger Salamander is ill!)

After using both the Repti-Sun 2.0 and 5.0 even with a light timer for breaks my salamander is starting to have very tender skin and is bleeding in little spots on his back. My vet has now said to discontinue UVB/UVA light because it is possible that I am burning his skin. Since I have been using it his skin has become much more tough and hard to shed. I thought that I absolutely needed to use this light for calcium gluconate absorption for the metabolic bone disease but I remembered in the back of my mind that I had read in a couple of different places that there was no medical consensus on using these lights for amphibians:

"e). amphibians - Some species may need UVB gradients, many are seriously injured by any strong exposure. We need . more research" (Adkins, et. al, 2003)

http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/docs/ultraviolet-light-and-reptiles-amphibians.pdf


I will first stop the light and see if the bleeding stops. If that doesn't work I may have to stop the topical application of the calcium gluconate.

It also doesn't help that he's stopped eating for a while. This happens sometimes but if it goes on for too long I'll have to figure something out. I can't bear to see him choking and throwing up from any type of syringe feeding. Plus, if he is at end of life stages I don't want him to suffer.
 
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