Suitable Axolotl Tankmates

I know that most people say that there are no legitimately suitable tankmates for axolotls. I'm not planning on adding anything with my axolotls, I'm just curious.
I've seen people say that African Clawed Frogs are really cool tankmates for axolotls, even seen some ACF/Axolotl tanks on youtube that are awesome. I've seen some people say that female Sirens are good tankmates, but I haven't seen any videos of that. I know a lot of people say that full grown Amano shrimp are too fast for most axolotls to catch and pretty cheap to replace if they do get eaten.
Would be nice to know if anyone has experimented with anything else.. Really I'd be interested in hearing any stories of any sort of axolotl tank mates. I mean, if an axolotl and an axolotl can be tankmates, I'm sure there are things out there that can also co exist well enough.
Also what are some things that, like amano shrimp, won't mess with the axolotls and would be fine it it got eaten. Small eels? Small crayfish?
And yes, I understand that a lot of people feel adding anything with an Axolotl other than an Axolotl is going to cause death to everything in sight, I'm not adding anything as my tank is just enough for the axolotls in it, but I am interested in hearing stories of other's experiences.

Here are some experiences.

The danger of someone getting injured or eaten is not the only reason why we don't mix species. There are often also significant differences in habitat requirements, as well as the risk of disease.

Crayfish have powerful claws that could pinch your axolotl and cause serious damage to the limbs, gills, tail, and so on. If an axolotl tried to eat a crayfish, the harder, thicker exoskeleton might cause digestive problems (if it didn't get lodged in the axolotl's throat in the first place).

Eels can be aggressive, are carnivorous, and usually require temperatures that would be deadly to an axolotl.

The only things remotely acceptable are small shrimp or fish, but that's only in small numbers and on a temporary basis, with the understanding that they're meant to be eaten. Even then, you still have to watch out for nipping, diseases, or parasites.

That being said, I did give my Godric some feeder guppies last year for Thanksgiving, and he ate all but one very quickly. The last guy was quite cautious, and he managed to survive for about two weeks (though I closely monitored to make sure he wasn't nipping; luckily he was too scared to try) and it was kind of nice to see a little fish swimming around in there. And then he got eaten.

Don't mix species >.>

*I should amend that some people do keep snails, but I personally don't because I don't want my axolotls to eat the shells, and I don't want to risk a snail getting on an axolotl and scraping its slime coat or skin. Also disease and parasites.

Yeah snails definitely would be a no go for the same reason gravel is a no go. What's the story on large frogs? I don't see how similarly sized african clawed frogs and axolotls couldn't get along just fine.

Jonjey said:

I don't see how similarly sized african clawed frogs and axolotls couldn't get along just fine.

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ACF - 7-10" of water at 20-25C
Axies - 12-18+" water at 15-20C
So no.

Shrimp and small fish will get eaten, but if you want to breed cherry shrimp or guppies for entertainment and food that would be fine.

auntiejude said:

ACF - 7-10" of water at 20-25C
Axies - 12-18+" water at 15-20C
So no.

Shrimp and small fish will get eaten, but if you want to breed cherry shrimp or guppies for entertainment and food that would be fine.

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Sounds to me like if you can keep it in the middle they would all be fine.

Jonjey said:

Sounds to me like if you can keep it in the middle they would all be fine.

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Have you actually read up on the conditions required by both? You'll find that their requirements are very different. A tank environment suitable for an axie is not suitable for a ACF, and vice versa.

There's a reason why conventional wisdom says axies should only be housed with other axies (or food). Dozens of people have tried various combinations before you came along - most of them found problems - which is why we have this general advice about tank mates.

Why do you see fit to challenge the conclusions reached by literally hundreds of combined years of axie keeping across thousands of axie keepers around the world? There is a huge difference between what is best for an axie and what is displayed on Youtube.

auntiejude said:

Have you actually read up on the conditions required by both? You'll find that their requirements are very different. A tank environment suitable for an axie is not suitable for a ACF, and vice versa.

There's a reason why conventional wisdom says axies should only be housed with other axies (or food). Dozens of people have tried various combinations before you came along - most of them found problems - which is why we have this general advice about tank mates.

Why do you see fit to challenge the conclusions reached by literally hundreds of combined years of axie keeping across thousands of axie keepers around the world? There is a huge difference between what is best for an axie and what is displayed on Youtube.

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Lol, you're acting like I have a tank where I have axolotl's with every aquatic animal imaginable. I have my axolotl with two amano shrimp and a single feeder fish and don't plan on adding anything else except my younger axolotl when he's big enough. I'm simply curious about it as I've seen some very healthy axolotls housed with other seemingly healthy animals in the same tank on youtube and wanted to hear stories. Seems everyone here is a little bit over the top when it comes to perfect guidelines and perfect living situations at all times. Just because you have a link with a couple of axolotls eating stuff that they shouldn't have been tanked with or being eaten by stuff that they shouldn't have been tanked with doesn't mean that there is literally nothing in the world that they can be tanked with. Obviously if you put a cat fish with an axolotl there will be issues. Those issues are extremely obvious with a ton of different creatures. However there are things where issues are much less obvious, like for instance the african clawed frog, or a siren that is the right size, etc. I just wanted to hear more about the possibility of it. You don't have to get defensive, or offensive, in regards to a topic in which I've already stated I don't have any plans on doing. I'm by no means an expert and I would never call myself one but it does seem like a lot of people on here are a little too over protective of these creatures, they certainly are much heartier than a lot of you give them credit for. All I see is "If you have it one degree over 68 they will DIE. If you put them with a fish they will DIE. If you let them eat feeder fish they will DIE. If you use huge river rocks they will somehow find a way to eat them and DIE. If you use an airstone they will eat the bubbles and DIE!"
Before you freak out, I have my tank below 66 degrees, I don't put them with any fish other than tiny feeder fish, I do keep my feeder fish quarantined for a month before feeding them, and I do use sand.
I don't want to disrespect anyone who obviously knows more than me about it, but please don't get aggressive about simple inquiries.

Some people mix axolotls and clawed frogs with no problems. I personally wouldn't do it ( I breed both species), even if they were of a similar size and too big to eat each other. The fact that the have different temp requirements should be sufficient reason not to mix them.

xxianxx said:

Some people mix axolotls and clawed frogs with no problems. I personally wouldn't do it ( I breed both species), even if they were of a similar size and too big to eat each other. The fact that the have different temp requirements should be sufficient reason not to mix them.

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I guess the top temp for axolotls and bottom temp for ACF overlap, but it would be hard to keep the water at that perfect temperature. With the perfect equipment it would be cool to try. Unfortunately ACF tend to be pretty funny looking critters.

Why not find out what their natural neighbors are?

limnologist said:

Why not find out what their natural neighbors are?

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Good call. Google isn't helping much. Anyone have any info?

Jonjey said:

You don't have to get defensive, or offensive, in regards to a topic in which I've already stated I don't have any plans on doing. I'm by no means an expert and I would never call myself one but it does seem like a lot of people on here are a little too over protective of these creatures, they certainly are much heartier than a lot of you give them credit for.

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I think, although I could be wrong, that Auntie Jude is simply a bit irritated by being asked a question and offering advice for the advice to be pushed aside. Well, perhaps not pushed aside, but questioned. As someone who's just reading the thread out of curiosity, I am asking why would someone ask for advice and then question or debate the advice? From what I've seen so far on the forum Auntie Jude is an extremely experienced person when it comes to raising and caring for axolotls, and there does seem to be a pattern (and please don't think I mean you when I say this, I mean other people) of asking for advice and then it being ignored or questioned.

As for the whole "if they are in water temperature of x degrees they will DIE", personally, I wouldn't want to make my axolotl stressed or uncomfortable if I could help it, simply for the sake of adding a tank mate who'd need a higher temperature. Just my own perspective though. From what I've read (and like you, I'm no expert) axies are content in their own company so to me, adding a tank mate would be more for myself than my axie's benefit.

I do say this with respect though, please don't think I'm taking sides on this; just offering how I read into it as a neutral observer.

Jonjey said:

Good call. Google isn't helping much. Anyone have any info?

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From what I know and have read, axolotls were the top predator in their two lakes. It makes sense that they became neotenic (adult babies/larvae form) in an ecosystem that had little predation or competition. They ate in the wild a mix of small crustaceans, small fish, and bugs. In the wild they wouldn't have had really any 'tank mates' besides other axolotls. I tried looking for any particular species they lived with but couldn't find any sources besides that general statement. You can look into keeping a small species of cold water fish like white cloud minnows but expect them to be eaten constantly.

The two main reasons why I would not consider keeping ACF and Axolotls together is these: it has been documented that ACF can carry Chytrid fungus, which could be deadly to axolotls and other amphibians. Google Amphibian Ark, and you can read up on what this is...

Also, even more so than axies, ACF have the behavior of snapping constantly at anything they think might be food. That means an axies beautiful feathery gills or its limbs could quickly become ripped off. And thirdly of course, there's the different temperature requirements.

At some point, I would like to try white cloud minnows in my main tank. I have heard these can work... for a period of time until they get eaten!

fireball99 said:

I think, although I could be wrong, that Auntie Jude is simply a bit irritated by being asked a question and offering advice for the advice to be pushed aside. Well, perhaps not pushed aside, but questioned. As someone who's just reading the thread out of curiosity, I am asking why would someone ask for advice and then question or debate the advice? From what I've seen so far on the forum Auntie Jude is an extremely experienced person when it comes to raising and caring for axolotls, and there does seem to be a pattern (and please don't think I mean you when I say this, I mean other people) of asking for advice and then it being ignored or questioned.

As for the whole "if they are in water temperature of x degrees they will DIE", personally, I wouldn't want to make my axolotl stressed or uncomfortable if I could help it, simply for the sake of adding a tank mate who'd need a higher temperature. Just my own perspective though. From what I've read (and like you, I'm no expert) axies are content in their own company so to me, adding a tank mate would be more for myself than my axie's benefit.

I do say this with respect though, please don't think I'm taking sides on this; just offering how I read into it as a neutral observer.

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I really appreciate how you worded this. Just to clarify, I didn't mean to push any advice aside or debate any advice, more to just ask a question in response to that advice. I agree that they should be kept at the proper temperature, and I agree that most of the other guidelines should be followed except for the bubbles thing that seems a bit much.. They can lose half their body and grow it back but if they eat a bubble watch out!

I just see it as people wanting what's best for axolotls. It's like the broad advice that a dog shouldn't be left in a hot car. Not because every single time they will die, but because as owners I suppose we need to do our best to reduce the likelihood of our pets being stressed or uncomfortable in any way. sometimes the easiest way to ensure we and others do that is just to say "don't do it".


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fireball99 said:

asking for advice and then it being ignored or questioned.

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Hit the nail on the head Fireball! It amazes me the number of people who come here asking questions and then ignoring the advice because they don't like it.

Apologies to Jonjey if I appeared to come over as a bit terse, but the general rules on pet keeping have been reached through experience. New ideas are great, but many 'new' ideas are just old ones that have already been tried and discarded.

I have absolutely no objections to people asking why we have certain 'rules' and conventional wisdom - it's all part of the learning process, and to ask how a conclusion has been reached is useful.

And some people are far too quick to post a question here rather than take 2 minutes to do a search for threads that may well cover their question.

But it breaks my heart to see any animal in poor conditions - whether it be an axie kept with fish or on gravel, or a polar bear in a Florida theme park (yes I cried when I saw them at Seaworld - poor things). There is no need, with the internet being so accessible, for people to be ill-informed and provide sub-standard care for their pets. There is a fine line between 'barely adequate' and 'unsuitable'.

Axolotls are recorded carriers of chytrid same as clawed frogs BTW

auntiejude said:

But it breaks my heart to see any animal in poor conditions - whether it be an axie kept with fish or on gravel, or a polar bear in a Florida theme park (yes I cried when I saw them at Seaworld - poor things). There is no need, with the internet being so accessible, for people to be ill-informed and provide sub-standard care for their pets. There is a fine line between 'barely adequate' and 'unsuitable'.

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Would an extra 5" of water in an adult ACF's tank be barely adequate? Honest question here I don't own any and have never researched what they need and truthfully don't have much of a desire for them but just curious.