Illness/Sickness: Floating upside-down - is it vet time?

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sooz

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Hi =]

I have searched the forum lots over the last week, but since I couldn't find an identical situation to mine I hope it's okay to ask for advice.

Six days ago I discovered one of my axolotls (Bowie) floating upside down at the top of their tank. I instantly knew she was unwell, and am almost certain it's because they were overdue a cleanout. This is entirely my fault - I have been unwell myself for a while, and as a result my critters have now suffered. It's the only time they've missed being cleaned-out and I'm feeling incredibly guilty (rightly so); I'm just after any advice as to how to get her better.

I followed the fridging guide on here, and she is still in there now. I'm not sure how useful that is, because there is unlikely to be an impaction as it's a bare bottomed tank. Even though she is barely covered with water and can definitely touch the floor, every time I go to change the water she is upside down again. Once the water is changed and she is back in the fridge, it's only a matter of minutes before she is upside down again.

My partner said that the day before we found her upside down, she had been incredibly active and racing round the tank. I should have known then that things weren't right as she's normally pretty chilled. Now, every time I set her the right way up, she is very wriggly and moves around an awful lot.

One thing I am concerned about is that I cannot seem to get the ph of the water in the fridge to be low enough. Whatever combination of water / dechlorinator I try, it remains in the high 7s. Is this anything to do with the amount of water (far less than in the normal tank) or the cold temperature of the water?

My flat is very, very hot, but the water in their tank is cool enough (I don't have a temperature right now as I'm not there). Obviously it has been cleaned out now, having had a full water change. It was not in the best state before last week though.

Since I'm sure it's not an impaction, I've tried feeding her worms but she's not interested. This is very unusual as she has always been a voracious feeder.

Her tank mate (Ziggy) seems well enough. However, since Bowie has been in the fridge he has just stayed in one corner which is breaking my heart. He's eating okay though. He's always been much smaller than her, but eats just fine. They are both about 18 months old.

Apologies that my post is so jumbled - I've just been typing things as I thought of them. Pictures are here. Sorry about the quality, my flat is poorly-lit and I didn't want to use the flash.

Hope that is enough information. I guess it's coming down to 'is it vet time?'. Not that I would normally hesitate, it's just finding an amphibian specialist is pretty tricky.

Thanks in advance =]
 
Your pH is fine. If your flat is very hot how is the tank cool ? This may just be a reaction to a high temp. Make sure the axolotl is completely covered with water when fridging it.
 
This is beyond my experience, so I will leave it to more learned members to advise on the floating issue.
What I can tell you is not to worry about her lacking an appetite in the fridge - the low temperature will lower her metabolism and reduce her need to eat. She is a well-rounded lotl, so will be able to cope without eating for some time.
Also,as you did a very large water change, keep an eye on your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates readings - by removing so much water, you may have reduced the amount of nutrients available for your good bacteria, so you may get a spike in your readings.
Apart from that, good luck with her, and I am sure others will soon reply on the floating problem.
 
xxianxx said:
Your pH is fine. If your flat is very hot how is the tank cool ? This may just be a reaction to a high temp. Make sure the axolotl is completely covered with water when fridging it.
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Hi, thank you for that - that's reassuring about the ph. The tank is in the coolest spot in the flat and I float iced bottles in there to maintain a lower temperature. I'll check the temperature when I get home this evening and report back.
 
Floating belly-up is often a symptom of air in the digestive system. This usually passes on its own eventually, but can be quite distressing for the axie (and owner) for a while.

I find floaters respond well to pondweed or a cork mat floating on the surface- they hide underneath it - and without something on top of the water they flip upside-down very easily.

Axies often don't eat while fridged as their metabolism slows down in the cold. If you let her warm up to room temp gradually she may take food, but I don't think she needs fridging any more - just isolation in cool water with something to hide under.
 
Sweetie said:
This is beyond my experience, so I will leave it to more learned members to advise on the floating issue.
What I can tell you is not to worry about her lacking an appetite in the fridge - the low temperature will lower her metabolism and reduce her need to eat. She is a well-rounded lotl, so will be able to cope without eating for some time.
Also,as you did a very large water change, keep an eye on your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates readings - by removing so much water, you may have reduced the amount of nutrients available for your good bacteria, so you may get a spike in your readings.
Apart from that, good luck with her, and I am sure others will soon reply on the floating problem.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that. She's certainly a healthy size / weight, so I'm not too concerned about her lack of appetite. (Perhaps I should put myself in a fridge, haha!)

Good point about the water change - I think I just panicked and went into 'clean ALL the things' mode!
 
auntiejude said:
Floating belly-up is often a symptom of air in the digestive system. This usually passes on its own eventually, but can be quite distressing for the axie (and owner) for a while.

I find floaters respond well to pondweed or a cork mat floating on the surface- they hide underneath it - and without something on top of the water they flip upside-down very easily.

Axies often don't eat while fridged as their metabolism slows down in the cold. If you let her warm up to room temp gradually she may take food, but I don't think she needs fridging any more - just isolation in cool water with something to hide under.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I wasn't too sure about the necessity of the fridge as I was certain it wasn't an impaction.

Pondweed can definitely be got, and I have some cork bark somewhere that I can dig out.

This is likely a silly question (in fact I can feel the stupidity as I type it!) but how essential is the isolation? If it's possible it's trapped air and there's no risk of cross-infection, would she be okay back in the main tank with Ziggy? I suppose there's no guarantee it's not bacterial, is there. I'm just thinking about the logistics of tank sizes etc - she's currently in the fridge in an Exo-Terra PT2265 faunarium - would it prove too small for her as she started to warm back up, do you think? I have the PT2310 but obviously that's far shallower.

Hope that made sense, thanks =]
 
Sorry, just wanted to add a big 'thank you' to everyone for being so helpful so quickly, and for holding back on any judgments about my missed clean-outs.
 
It's not a silly question at all. I think the answer is that you should use your best judgement. The key is she needs to be in a stress-free environment. If you think that is best provided in the tank with her tank-mate, then I cannot see a good reason why she should not be in there. Although everything I read says lotls are not social creatures, I am sure some tank-mates get used to and come to enjoy each other's company, so would perhaps feel more comfortable in each other's presence. You would know best whether this is the case with your axies.
I would qualify this, though, by saying that Auntie Jude is an expert and you should definitely follow her advice. If she believes isolation IS important, then do as she says.
 
Sweetie said:
It's not a silly question at all. I think the answer is that you should use your best judgement. The key is she needs to be in a stress-free environment. If you think that is best provided in the tank with her tank-mate, then I cannot see a good reason why she should not be in there. Although everything I read says lotls are not social creatures, I am sure some tank-mates get used to and come to enjoy each other's company, so would perhaps feel more comfortable in each other's presence. You would know best whether this is the case with your axies.
Click to expand...

At the risk of sounding soft, I genuinely believe Ziggy is missing her as he's been moping in a corner since she's been in the fridge. I wouldn't say they are cuddly(!), but they are certainly tolerant of one another and never scrap or bother each other.

Sweetie said:
I would qualify this, though, by saying that Auntie Jude is an expert and you should definitely follow her advice. If she believes isolation IS important, then do as she says.
Click to expand...

Righto, I shall definitely do that! =]
 
sooz said:
At the risk of sounding soft, I genuinely believe Ziggy is missing her as he's been moping in a corner since she's been in the fridge.
They are not SUPPOSED to worry about company, but I have long maintained that axies who co-habit will miss company if their tank mates get moved. When I moved my male out of the communal tank he started hunting all over his new tank - more than just normal curiodity of a new environment. When we introduced his new tank mate they had a brief nose-to-nose tense moment and have been best buddies ever since. And if I isolate any one of my axies - even just for 15 minutes for a salt bath and rinse - the first thing they do is find another axie to sit next to when they get back in their tank.

On the subject of isolation you may well find that a floating axie is less able to avoid nipping by others - my floater lost both his front legs and one gill branch - he's doing fine now having spent a month on his own, and is in my hospital tank with other 2 and 3 legged axies. Shallow water and daily changes are a good idea though. If you really feel that your axies would do better to be back together again then do it - theres no harm in seeing what happens.

BTW Really Useful Boxes make great temporary tanks - I raise my babies in their 64L stackers but a any wide box 5-10L is great for a hospital tub.
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Click to expand...
 
Thanks, auntiejude. I have various Really Useful Boxes I can utilise, too.

Sorry for more questions, but I want to be sure I'm doing the best I can for them.

What harm is floating upside-down actually causing? Assuming it's air and not an infection or worse.

As I'm seeing it at the moment, my options for her are:
> gradually rewarm her and reintroduce her to the tank. The tank has a filter and the water is around 15inches deep. I can put some floating cork and / or pondweed in, too. Ziggy is in there but is moping in a corner.
> gradually rewarm her and keep her in a Really Useful Box with the water at [?] depth in a cool place. There is no filter, so would have to do daily water changes (not normally a problem but I'm away for 48 hours this weekend). Can put floating cork and / or pondweed in there, too.

Are there other options I'm not thinking of? Which of these would be best, do you think? I'm guessing the latter, but am concerned about the water when I'm away.

Huge thanks =]
 
Up to you Sooz, either could work.

Floating upside-down is stressful, sometimes the axie in question will refuse food and will become more susceptible to infection. If she's eating then putting her back in the tank should be OK.

If your tub is big enough you can get away with the same water for 2 days.

As I said - your choice!
 
Thank you, I think I'll go the way of the RUB - at least until I'm back from the weekend's trip and can keep a closer eye on her.

How does the floating upside-down issue tend to rectify itself, if of course it does?! Just wondering what timescale I should be expecting a result by, and what might be some signs that things are going downhill?

I feel dreadful for her, but am only turning her back over once every 24 hours with the water change as I don't want to stress her even further.
 
sooz said:
How does the floating upside-down issue tend to rectify itself, if of course it does?!
Click to expand...

How do you think gas trapped in their digestive system gets resolved?! (insert fart joke here)
It can last days or sometimes weeks, some axies are more prone to it than others (I've called my floater Bob!) and some just grow out of it.
If it doesn't resolve it could be a genetic condition where they can breathe in but can't breathe out properly - but if this is a new occurrence I very much doubt it.
 
Haha, that's great then! Nothing better than a good old fart to get her feeling better again!

Thank you again for all your help (and patience!) =]
 
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