The Secrets of Our Dwarfs

Auntiejude and Others,
I moved this to the General Discussion area because I would like to continue our discussion about Dwarfism and do not think that it needs to be under the Ethics of Breeding because we have pretty well came to the same conclusion.
You stated that you thought that the issue with your pup was more link to scoliosis than achondroplasia because of the kink in the spine. My two Dwarfs do not have kinks in their spines. Not saying that is why yours has issues....it could very well be....just discussing. So if my two do not have kinked spines then the other word that you used was Achondroplasia. Here, I did some engine searches.So based on these two engine search results mentioned above, I do not believe that the Axolotl is a victim of Dwarfism. So this trait that we are trying to describe seems not to be the correct label. Now, I am not trying to justify propagation of this line. I have already voiced that. We do not know if it is good or bad....hence, not justified.
Do you know the origin of the labeling of the term Dwarf to this line in the Axolotl?

Now I also did an engine search typing in 'do amphibians get Achonodroplasia?'
The 4th option gives me this: -I will cut and paste-

Life Processes (800) - Encyclopedia Britannica
Results 1 - 63 of 800 ... The numerous sudden changes that evoke... achondroplasia ... a disease
affecting amphibians, especially frogs, caused by the fungus ...
Encyclopedia Britannica - 52k - Similar pages


Notice where it says caused by the fungus....anyway I clicked on here and it takes me to some page I have to sign up for. I didn't go any further. I got to thinking about all the issues that we read about fungus on this site and wonder if there may be a link. I am not suggesting that you have had a fungus problem, but if fungus causes a problem as severe as something like this can it be passed down genetically? Hence...skipping generations? Just a thought.....


Hey...maybe we should contact Sal-site? At theAlso....do you remember when your little guy was an embryo? Was he a severe circle shape, in the egg? I have had severe circle shaped embryos. I have had kinked spine pups. I have read that if the embryo stays in the egg sac to long, that this will occur and some have stated to mechanically release the embryo from the egg prematurely to help with this problem. I prematurely hatch eggs, but not for this reason anymore, and I totally disagree with this and here is why. I have hatch thousands and I mean thousands of eggs. Only two 'accidental' clutches from my own breeders and the rest of the eggs that I have hatched out have been bought from a whole spectrum of hobbyist on this site. I have had only severe 'circle' hatchlings from one breeder. Those eggs from that breeder always had circles that stayed circles after they hatched. I had notice that the feel of the egg sac of those eggs were different to the touch. A more dense, harder rubber feeling type of touch. After the 2'nd and 3'rd batches I started to cull the circled eggs from his clutches, because there were to many severe circle, deformities. I found foster homes for the deformed pups from the first clutch of eggs that I received from him. I am not of a flusher of pups. Now I will not take any of his eggs because of the loss ratio is to high. Does this ring a bell for your Billy? I am going to guess probably not just because of the no leg scenario. I have a pup that started out as a pick for my brood stock. It now has a make leg missing (not from a nip) and another leg that the foot is gone with just a knob at the end of shaft of the leg and a foot growing out of its throat. It started out normal but the feet and leg just disappeared. It is just as active as its siblings. I have found a home for this precious pup. Come to find out that the person adopting this pup is studying to be a Vet. and has a dog with 3 legs. I am really getting attached to this pup but I have quite a few deformed 'pets' that I will have to relocate just because of a heavy load factor . Anyway, I hope to hear from you and continue to discuss the 'Secrets of Our Dwarfs"
Trace

Wow, that's a lot to think about Willowcat!

Frist of all - achodroplasia vs scoliosis was just a way of describing the difference between a genetic disorder and a developmental issue. I don't really know if axies can suffer an equivalent of either.

The term 'dwarf' can refer to any animal that is smaller than usual or something that has an unusual shape meaning it is shorter than normal. Dwarf rabbits are just small rabbits - deliberately bred for their small size, as opposed to our axies with obvious peculiar shapes. Maybe dwarf is the wrong term to apply to these odd-shaped axies - what else would you suggest though?

I now firmly believe that my Billy has some kind of developmental deformity in his spine rather than a genetic condition. I don't believe it was caused by fungus, restricted space in his egg, damage to his egg or any environmental factor, and it was just 'one of those things' that happen occasionally - a developmental mistake in cell reproduction.

My reasoning? He was one of 100 eggs I kept from his batch, none of the others have been affected by any similar deformity, illness (other than expected larvae mortality) or other problem. Logic says he must be an anomaly rather than anything else. But I will study the offspring from his parents in future for similar issues.

I don't recall any odd-shaped larvae or tight circle embryos while inside thier eggs, but I did notice that Billy had a kink in his spine straight off once he hatched. I considered euthanising him because I didn't think he would survive, but decided to see how he turned out - just out of curiosity because the deformed larvae I had before didn't make it. He did well and seemed to straighten out as he grew. At 3 months it was obvious that he was a different shape to his siblings - no front legs (although I can't be certain if they were bitten off or whether they never grew in the first place), a short spine and very rounded body.

By all means, Willowcat, if you want to request some information from the University of Kentucky, or any other study centre please do - it would be great to have some proper scientific input as well as out own limited observations.

To anyone else out there who notices an odd-shaped larva - please take lots of pictures and make notes on development if you're going to raise it. It's something I wish I had done with Billy, and certainly something I will do in future.