Sick juvenile, mouth open, lips look strange??

hhilgen2 · Aug 29, 2014

Hello all,
We just purchased a juvenile axolotl a week and a half ago. He is in a 25 gallon tank with sand substrate. He had been doing really well..eating a couple earthworms or a half cube of brine shrimp daily. Yesterday I noticed that he was floating with his front legs about a half inch off the floor and his mouth was slightly open. He still ate, but regurgitated his worms yesterday. Today he is looking thin, floating at the top of the tank in the current, with his mouth open. His lips also look flat and somewhat thickened. Can somebody please help us?

There are no nitrites, nitrates, or chlorine in the tank when I checked the water yesterday. One of the guppies in the tank died, and I suspect he might have eaten it? It would be a very large meal for him as he is only about 4 inches long. The tank is about 74 degrees, which is warmer than we'd like...the heat here is awful is spite of a/c and we've been using ice bottles to try and lower it

hhilgen2 · Aug 29, 2014

Another shot

keiko · Aug 29, 2014

Have you tested ammonia?
Did you find a dead fish or did it disappear? If it just disappeared it was probably eaten, but if you found it dead then there's probably ammonia or something else wrong with the water.

hhilgen2 · Aug 29, 2014

The guppy was looking really poorly (had shredded fins from the filter) and was gone the next morning (assume it died and was eaten overnight). I don't have a test specifically for ammonia, but nitrites and nitrates were 0 ppm, total hardness was 75, chlorine was 0, alkalinity was about 120, and ph was about 7

keiko · Aug 29, 2014

You need to get a liquid test kit for ammonia. If your nitrates are 0 then your tank isn't cycled. You probably already have too much ammonia in the tank unless you have been doing big water changes daily. Ammonia is very toxic to axies and other animals. You need to learn about cycling asap (and don't use the quick start bacteria stuff, they're not good and have chemicals in them). Meanwhile it's best to take the axie in a separate container with daily 100% water changes.

hhilgen2 · Aug 29, 2014

The tank has been cycling for about 3 weeks with live fish and a bio filter. The LFS said those numbers were great

he's separated right now and we'll do aggressive water changes. Everything else in the tank is doing great, so it's really disheartening. Do you know what would be causing his lips to look that way? They almost look like he ran facefirst into glass or something. They're really flat and enlarged and almost have a fungus-like appearance to them. Thank you so much for your help!

hhilgen2 · Aug 29, 2014

Just retested and nitrates are 10-20 ppm today. Nitrites zero. Still planning on getting an ammonia kit today and doing big water changes, but does that change anything??

keiko · Aug 29, 2014

Nitrate is the end product of the cycle so there would be nitrates if you have had animals in there and the cycle is ready. Right now judging by the readings you gave it looks like the cycle hasn't even started because there isn't nitrite either. Here are a couple of articles to take a look:
Caudata culture - cycling
Fishless cycling

I can't really see the lips in detail in the pictures (it's really hard to get a detailed picture of albino axies..), but from what I can see, there doesn't seem to be anything bad. Maybe they just look different with mouth open? I'll attach a picture of my wild type with her mouth slightly open. But if you can see a cut or fungus in the mouth area then you could try indian almond leaves at first.

Edit. If the nitrates are at 10-20 and nitrites are 0 then it's looking good so far. It's still good to test ammonia too though.

hhilgen2 · Aug 29, 2014

Crud, I wish I could get a good picture. His lips definitely look strange and different from what they've been. They were normal looking, but open yesterday and today they look diseased. Is there anything else I can do for him aside from separating and keeping in a daily changed tank? I really do appreciate the advice and resources!

keiko · Aug 29, 2014

You could try indian almond leaves, they're mildly antibacterial and antifungal in case there is some kind of infection going on. Also try to get the water a bit cooler, axies heal generally very well, but high temperatures stress them and expose them to infections etc.

hhilgen2 · Aug 29, 2014

Noted, thank you!

hhilgen2 · Aug 29, 2014

Update: got ammonia test kit and it's reading at 0.25 ppm. Is that high enough to cause the signs I'm seeing? He's no better in isolation and his appetite is now completely gone

Cacique · Aug 30, 2014

I'm not sure if it would cause the issues, but the ammonia is at a point where you need a water change to bring it down. Good luck and hope your axie gets better.

snuggly time · Aug 30, 2014

Hi,

Indian Almond Leaves may help sooth his skin with the cycling. Also, you mentioned he was floating in the current... Is it a strong current, axolotls often get stressed if the filter is too strong.

hhilgen2 · Aug 30, 2014

The current is a really low trickle filter at the top, so I think we're ok there. None of the plants move at all and neither axolotl has forward turned gills.

I haven't been able to find any leaves at any local stores. Other ideas? He's still very dumpy and inappetant. Lip lesions look.unchanged. I got him out as soon as I noticed obvious signs and was hoping he'd be at least minimally improved. I'm going to do a second major water change on the main tank today to ensure everyone there stays healthy.

The cruddy little store I got him from had him on small gravel that he's been pooping out (fluorescent orange!). Im wondering if he has an impaction AND some sort of bacterial or fungal lip infection.

Cacique · Aug 30, 2014

I wish I had more advice, but I just wanted to mention that I haven't seen indian almond leaves locally. I can't tell you if you'll be able to find them locally, but you can easily find them on Amazon, e-bay or aqua bids.

snuggly time · Aug 30, 2014

Yeah I get mine from ebay... They work wonders, they helped my axolotl when he was sick and I had a fish with a fungus eye the other week who is now looking healthy again.

If he continues not to improve perhaps fridge him for a little while to help him pass the gravel.

hhilgen2 · Aug 30, 2014

Ordered. Thanks again for the help, everyone. Will keep updated if anything changes

Sick juvenile, mouth open, lips look strange??

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