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E.e.croceater w/eggs

R

russ

Guest
So far so good with this clutch. These were laid 23May04 and still have a ways to go. I've had a clutch eaten and a couple that I'm still waiting to drop. I have a clutch of A.lugubris eggs but the female is too fidgety for a pic.

RUSS
17979.jpg
 

TJ

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Truly amazing pic, Russ! How long does the female stay with the eggs? Or did she just lay them?
 
N

nic

Guest
Did you breed these in captivity? How is it possible? My congratulations to you sir. I want to know more!
 
J

joseph

Guest
Mind telling me about basic husbandry requirements on these guys? Temp esp.

I may be able to get E. e. platensis but am unsure on if I should or not...if I can't keep em and breed successfully then I will leave them be.

Thanks!

(Message edited by fishkeeper on July 13, 2004)
 
P

paris

Guest
tim-
look closer at the eggs -they have eyes and spines-she has been sitting on them for a while. i had quite a few lay eggs but since 65 was too warm for the parents i moved them to the fridge-where all the eggs perished from mold....those still have awhile to go before hatching-he will know once the eggs start to get 'droopy'(outer wall thinning).
 

TJ

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Well I did see the eyes and spines but I kinda wondered if maybe the embryos might develop halfway in the "womb" before being laid
smile6.gif
I know that there are some salamanders that don't even lay eggs, while some embryos from eggs that are laid don't go through a larvae stage. So there are indeed lots of anomalies. So the mother sits with the eggs solely to protect them? Surely not to "incubate" them...!? Too bad about your eggs. Better luck next time!

(Message edited by TJ on July 13, 2004)
 
T

travis

Guest
I am still waiting from my gravid E.e.croceator to drop her eggs. I really hope she lays them soon and doesn't absorb them like I have seen done in previous years. Wish me luck.
-Travis
 
R

russ

Guest
She has been with them since laying them, and I expect her to stay with them until they hatch. I'm not sure why the other croceater ate her eggs and this one didn't, I checked them with the same frequency. The "eater" ate them last season too, so it might just be her own form of infanticide. I plan on using a surrogate mother next year.

If and when things slow down for me I'll get a care sheet put together. In the mean time, Paris, 65F is not too warm. My herp room is hovering right at 70F and obviously doing fine. Give'em a chance, you'll be surprised. Yes, lower would be nice, but until I build a house instead of buying one that dedicated room just doesn't exist. Soon though, real soon.

RUSS
 
P

paris

Guest
well its hit or miss -but i came to the conclusion after i lost 6 in 3 different set ups -that it was too warm-i was reinforced when they did well in the fridge. the monterays and yellow eyes did ok at the 65-70 range. i was just relating that mine didnt do well -but there are always other reasons.....as for the eater of eggs-did you see if the eggs she ate were fertalised? there is a supposition that mothers will consume bad eggs to prevent them from spoiling their limited clutch. could she have laid infertile eggs like my lone palmate newt does-just out of habit?
 
R

russ

Guest
Could be. I wondered if they might do that. But two years in a row seems unlikely, especially since I rotate the males through. Maybe I'll just take half her clutch next year and see what happens.

The only losses I've had with Ensatina had more to do with the containers staying too damp. That got that weird necrosis of the skin. Another problem I've seem in general is that some substrates generate their own heat due to decomposition. That's why I stay away from peat and fine mulch.

RUSS
 
N

nic

Guest
Hey Russ,
Do you have any pictures of your tank set ups for
ensatina's to share?
thanks,
Nic
 
J

joseph

Guest
What are you going to do with them all? Not allowed to sell em, right?
 
R

russ

Guest
Actually I could sell them if I wanted. They're captive bred and born and I'm not in CA. I might sell a couple, but otherwise I need to retain them to increase my colony.

Nic, I'll post some container pics tonight.

RUSS
 
N

nate

Guest
Hey Russ, congrats! This is a pretty huge accomplishment. About ready to write that caresheet for Caudata Culture?
 
N

nic

Guest
Hi Russ,
Thanks! Can't wait to see them. Hey, if you do
end up selling a couple I would love to get in line
for one. I live in LA and going up to the mountains
isn't a problem, but I don't want to take from the environment and I will rather support the captive born alternative. If it becomes a possibility, please let me know!
Nic
 
R

russ

Guest
Nate, I swear I'm going to get to that care sheet, but it will probably be this fall.

Here's an unfortunate update. That bugger starting eating the hatchlings, I guess as they were coming out. I moved the remaining 6 (of 10) eggs onto some perlite. You can see one emerging on the lower left.

Next season I'm going to do some experimenting with separating eggs and incubating them in different set-ups (perlite, vermiculite). Anyone else have any experience?? I'm not so sure that they can't survive on their own. When Aneides suspend their eggs, all I can tell the female is doing is guarding them. I've heard antidotal remarks about the female secreting something on them that keeps them moist or mold free, but nothing definitive. I had some Aneides eggs three years ago do fine on their own for 35 days until I had to move and they got knocked around pretty good on the trip.

I still owe some container pics.

RUSS
20261.jpg
 
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