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Plethodontids and Lungless Salamanders (Bolitoglossa, Eurycea, Plethodon, etc.) The largest, and one of the most diverse groups of salamanders, these salamanders have all evolved to breathe solely through their skin and are found almost exclusively in North America.


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Old 29th March 2018   #1
ntny
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Default Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hi Folks,
i need some advice on keeping Plethodontidae species
i do have some experiences with Cynops, Paramesotriton etc...
i am new to Plethodontidae species. i have never keep any before. but i saw them available recently specifically Eurycea guttolineata and very curious and interested about them
i hope to get more information on housing them properly.
a few species i research came to mind but i am not sure if they are easy for a beginner
one thing i am concern is the cooler temp the Plethodontidae species seems to need a range of 20C and below?
Eurycea longicauda - can these be house at 22C?
Eurycea guttolineata - can these be house at 22C?
Eurycea cirrigera - can these be house at 22C?
Plethodon grobmani - do they have yellow spots or white spots? seems abit yellow to me - can these be house at 22C?
Plethodon glutinosus - do they have yellow spots or white spots? seems abit yellow to me - can these be house at 22C?
thanks and have a nice day



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Old 4th April 2018   #2
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hello Folks
i see some interesting Plethodontidae are quite common.
Plethodon glutinosus and Eurycea cirrigera
may i know if they are easy for a beginner? are they easy to breed? can they survive well in higher temps like 22C degrees celsius?
thanks



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Old 6th April 2018   #3
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hey! Sorry no one has replied to you yet! I don't have much experience with these kinds of Salamanders, but I'll try to help you out a bit.

I have done a little research on the two species you seem interested in. Eurycea cirrigera seems to be a semi-aquatic species and so I think that, as a beginner, Plethodon glutinosus would be easier to care for. This way you can have a strictly terrestrial habitat. You wouldn't have to worry about water quality as much and a set up is typically cheaper that way. It is also worthy to note that Plethodon glutinosus tend to be aggressive when defending territories, so you may want a large tank if your planning on having a couple, or maybe just stick with one if you are just having it for education or recreational purposes. They both are reported to eat small invertebrates, so if you can set up a living terrarium ahead of time and get it stable, keeping them fed should be pretty cheap as well. However, if you are intimidated by that, flightless fruit flies can be cultured pretty easily for them and you can just dust them with powder for extra nutrients. I personally have a living terrarium of isopods, millipedes, snails, and some worms.

All the information I gathered was found on Amphibiaweb.org. I suggest taking a look for yourself and see what their habits are and their needs to come to a decision. This hobby always requires a bit of homework. It is totally worth it in the end though! I hope this helps!



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Old 7th April 2018   #4
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

hi bhill368,
thanks for kind advice
ya i do like Plethodon glutinosus especially those with golden/yellowish flecks or spots very much.
but i do read breeding them is difficult and the babies are very hard to care for?
any reasons why the babies are hard to care for? i can't seems to find much information on them.
other .Plethodontidae which i am very interested is Eurycea longicauda, these are simply gorgeous looking. but very little information can be found about keeping and breeding them.
hope if anyone has more information can share about them
cheers!

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Originally Posted by bhill368 View Post
Hey! Sorry no one has replied to you yet! I don't have much experience with these kinds of Salamanders, but I'll try to help you out a bit.

I have done a little research on the two species you seem interested in. Eurycea cirrigera seems to be a semi-aquatic species and so I think that, as a beginner, Plethodon glutinosus would be easier to care for. This way you can have a strictly terrestrial habitat. You wouldn't have to worry about water quality as much and a set up is typically cheaper that way. It is also worthy to note that Plethodon glutinosus tend to be aggressive when defending territories, so you may want a large tank if your planning on having a couple, or maybe just stick with one if you are just having it for education or recreational purposes. They both are reported to eat small invertebrates, so if you can set up a living terrarium ahead of time and get it stable, keeping them fed should be pretty cheap as well. However, if you are intimidated by that, flightless fruit flies can be cultured pretty easily for them and you can just dust them with powder for extra nutrients. I personally have a living terrarium of isopods, millipedes, snails, and some worms.

All the information I gathered was found on Amphibiaweb.org. I suggest taking a look for yourself and see what their habits are and their needs to come to a decision. This hobby always requires a bit of homework. It is totally worth it in the end though! I hope this helps!



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Old 11th April 2018   #5
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntny View Post
Hi Folks,
i need some advice on keeping Plethodontidae species
i do have some experiences with Cynops, Paramesotriton etc...
i am new to Plethodontidae species. i have never keep any before. but i saw them available recently specifically Eurycea guttolineata and very curious and interested about them
i hope to get more information on housing them properly.
a few species i research came to mind but i am not sure if they are easy for a beginner
one thing i am concern is the cooler temp the Plethodontidae species seems to need a range of 20C and below?
Eurycea longicauda - can these be house at 22C?
Eurycea guttolineata - can these be house at 22C?
Eurycea cirrigera - can these be house at 22C?
Plethodon grobmani - do they have yellow spots or white spots? seems abit yellow to me - can these be house at 22C?
Plethodon glutinosus - do they have yellow spots or white spots? seems abit yellow to me - can these be house at 22C?
thanks and have a nice day
Hello, I second the vote for pletodon glutinous, although I've not kept them, I know their range extends to Florida, so I would expect that they can deal with 22C at least for short periods. Their morphs or phenotypes can be quite diverse though. Some are quite robust, with certain color patterns, while others are thin with other color patterns. I'd suggest buying this species in person so you are happy with your new, little friend. I've heard Eurecea prove challenging. Many people have started keeping Aneides sp, so these are also seemingly not too hard to keep. Yes, many lungless salamanders bite each other, self-automate their tails (I experienced this while picking up a Eurecea)or eat their eggs when startled, so also something to keep in mind. I keep Desmognus(spelling), and they are easy to keep and handle warmer temps better.



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Old 15th April 2018   #6
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hi Nat1
Thanks for your kind advice.
yes this family Plethodontids is very diverse and there seems to be very little species specific information about keeping and caring for them.
for example i have seen Eurycea Guttolineata available for a while but i am not very sure how to take good care of them.
Pletodon Glutinous is commonly available and on my wish list, but a few question marks about them.. they seems to have short lifespan in captivity? difficult to breed?
and also Arboreal types Bolitoglossa mexicana. how do you take care of them?
thanks

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Hello, I second the vote for pletodon glutinous, although I've not kept them, I know their range extends to Florida, so I would expect that they can deal with 22C at least for short periods. Their morphs or phenotypes can be quite diverse though. Some are quite robust, with certain color patterns, while others are thin with other color patterns. I'd suggest buying this species in person so you are happy with your new, little friend. I've heard Eurecea prove challenging. Many people have started keeping Aneides sp, so these are also seemingly not too hard to keep. Yes, many lungless salamanders bite each other, self-automate their tails (I experienced this while picking up a Eurecea)or eat their eggs when startled, so also something to keep in mind. I keep Desmognus(spelling), and they are easy to keep and handle warmer temps better.



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Old 17th April 2018   #7
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hey,

I am sorry, I don't have much experience keeping this group of caudates. So, I cannot give you for sure answers. Everything I said early is from doing some digging on the site that I posted above. I would suggest doing some research on those species, combining that information with common caudate keeping practices, and then make your decisions from there. That would be the most beneficial and efficient way to go about this. A lot of times this hobby requires a bit of research and set up ahead of time, but it is worth it!



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Old 5th May 2018   #8
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hello !
22C may be seen as a maximum, occasionnal temperature instead of an usual temperature, for Eurycea or Plethodon.



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Old 6th May 2018   #9
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hi JM29,
Thanks for advice.
What's the reasonable temperature range to keep Eurycea or Plethodon?
always below 21C?
thanks

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Hello !
22C may be seen as a maximum, occasionnal temperature instead of an usual temperature, for Eurycea or Plethodon.



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Old 7th May 2018   #10
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

For Plethodon (P. cinereus) are in a non-heated room where the temperatures vary between +4C and +21C. All my friends who have several Plethodon species (and Eurycea too) do have such fresh rooms.

Now, it's possible that very southern species (Plethodon albagula from Texas for example) can thrive well at higher temperatures.

Other advices would be welcome.



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Old 8th May 2018   #11
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hi JM29,
Thanks for your advice again. you are very helpful
Normally i see Eurycea guttolineata and Plethodon glutinosus available. other species of Plethodontidae are very hard to find. Very rarely i do see Eurycea longicauda and that's about it.
i read that Eurycea guttolineata and Plethodon glutinosus may come from N.Florida area
specifically do you have any experiences with them?
i read that Plethodon glutinosus has a rather short live span for about 5 years only?
Thanks and cheers

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For Plethodon (P. cinereus) are in a non-heated room where the temperatures vary between +4C and +21C. All my friends who have several Plethodon species (and Eurycea too) do have such fresh rooms.

Now, it's possible that very southern species (Plethodon albagula from Texas for example) can thrive well at higher temperatures.

Other advices would be welcome.



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Old 10th May 2018   #12
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hi, ntny,

I'm sorry not to have personal experience with Eurycea species. Anyway you're right in that E. guttolineata is as south as north Florida and may accomodate higher temperatures. Nervertheless, Jean Raffalli (2013) cites temperatures between 5 and 18C for E. guttolineata ; so temperatures above 22C may not be permanent.

As for Plethodon glutinosus, this species group has been recently split in 14 to 16 semi-species. One of them (now called P. grobmani) does definitely exist in the northern part of Florida. So the remaining problem is : what P. glutinosus have you access to ? Be sure of its origin if possible.



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Old 11th May 2018   #13
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hi JM29,
Thank you for your kind advice again
Out of curiosity, Plethodon Serratus they seems to come from southern areas too eg: Louisiana. they are also very beautiful species
although it seems like they are not readily available for sale, hahaha!
do you have any experiences with them?
cheers!

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Originally Posted by JM29 View Post
Hi, ntny,

I'm sorry not to have personal experience with Eurycea species. Anyway you're right in that E. guttolineata is as south as north Florida and may accomodate higher temperatures. Nervertheless, Jean Raffalli (2013) cites temperatures between 5 and 18C for E. guttolineata ; so temperatures above 22C may not be permanent.

As for Plethodon glutinosus, this species group has been recently split in 14 to 16 semi-species. One of them (now called P. grobmani) does definitely exist in the northern part of Florida. So the remaining problem is : what P. glutinosus have you access to ? Be sure of its origin if possible.



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Old 14th May 2018   #14
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hi ntny,

Sorry, I've no personal experience with P. serratus.

Certainly P. serratus has a more southern range than P. cinereus and we might expect it to be exposed to higher temperatures. Nevertheless, while P. cinereus has a large and continuous home range, P. serratus' range is highly partitionned. 3 out of 4 of these parts comprise hilly or mountainous areas. Maybe P. serratus doesn't tolerate heat stress more than P. cinereus. Perhaps P. serratus live locally in micro-environments similar to P. cinereus.

For more detailed infos, please read :
https://www.caudata.org/cc/species/P...cinereus.shtml



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Old 3rd July 2018   #15
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hello Folks
May i ask the experts here, which Plethodontidae species breeds "quite often" in captivity?
i did some search on this forum and it seems the below species are?
Eurycea bislineata/cirrigera
Hemidactylium scutatum
Pseudotriton ruber
Plethodon cinereus

on the other hand the larger Eurycea and Plethodon species doesn't seems to breed so easily?
cheers!



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Old 3rd July 2018   #16
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

It's a matter of offering cool habitat and a natural light cycle (ideally with a temperature cycle too). Small Plethodontidae and aquatic species seem to be "easier". Plethodon cinereus and small terrestrial Desmognathus species that don't have larvae are probably the easiest. You are correct on Pseudotriton ruber - if someone bet me I couldn't breed a lungless, I would try these. The others I wouldn't consider straightforward. Eurycea have a biphasic life cycle and Hemidactylium does too, as well as its own specific breeding habitat requirements. Bigger Plethodontids are generally tougher, but Aneides lugubris seems to be a good target. It's not just a matter of getting a species to lay eggs, but also getting the eggs to hatch.



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Old 4th July 2018   #17
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hi John
Thanks for your kind advice again.
yes i am highly interested in Plethodontidae species. but so far i have no luck obtaining them except Plethodon glutinosus which is pretty common. but they seems hard to breed.
it seems Plethodontidae species are hard and tricky to ship too due to low temperature requirements?
The eggs can't be detract from the females for shipping if i am not wrong.?
i do get some information from suppliers they have the following species soon
Pseudotriton ruber
Pseudotriton montanus floridanus
Gyrinophilus porphyriticus

Not very sure if i should go for Pseudotriton ruber as my first Plethodontidae ...?

Thanks and cheers!



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Old 4th July 2018   #18
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hello John and Folks,
i forgot to mention the supplier also have Desmognathus quadramaculatus available soon.
My question, is Desmognathus quadramaculatus easier or Pseudotriton ruber to keep and breed?
i am not sure about Pseudotriton montanus floridanus and Gyrinophilus porphyriticus as there are very little information about them.
thanks and cheers!



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Old 8th July 2018   #19
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

I don't know of anyone successfully breeding D. quadramaculatus in captivity. It seems to take a large tank with cold highly oxygenated water...I would guess maintained below 60F year round. I bred P. m. diastictus in the past. Gyrinophilus has taken me several years to reproduce successfully (aside from a handful of good eggs, most were killed by fungus). I finally have a good number developing this year. They are quite difficult to sex unless you find a pair together.



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Old 9th July 2018   #20
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Default Re: Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

Hello Tim and folks,
thanks for your great advice.
i think i shall stick to Pseudotriton ruber for now .
btw my fridge is about 13C to 20C, sometime it gets colder to 10C depends on the weather.
surprisingly the weather does affect the fridge temperature
is this temperature range ok for Pseudotriton ruber?
thanks and cheers!



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