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Pingia granulosus

paul_b

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Pingia granulosus was called as synonym of Pachytriton!

Now in a new article it is described a valide species:

HOU Mian, ZHOU Zhuo-cheng, LI Pi-peng. LÜ Shun-qing: Rediscovery of Pingia granulosus (Chan, 1933), and Description of the Neotype Specimens, Sichuan Journal of Zoology, Vol. 28, No. 1, 2009

It is in Chinese.
Someone here who can make a translation?
Paul
 

Alejandro

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Dear Paul,

Could you please e-mail me the article so I can give it to one of our Chinese students for translation? My e-mail is caalejan@utep.edu. Thanks.
 

Jennewt

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Re: AW: Pingia granulosus

I have an English translation of this, whoever may want it. To me, it looks like this animal could be another Cynops, rather than a new genus.
 

John

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Re: AW: Pingia granulosus

I've had a quick look at the translation and my evaluation can be summed up as "No genetics = no credence". Likely another Pachytriton variant. This paper strikes me as something we'd see in a Victorian journal (ouch, sorry).
 

Jennewt

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Re: AW: Pingia granulosus

Indeed, it's sad to see such an exciting find described in such an inadequate paper. I'm still betting that it's closer to Cynops; doesn't look like any of the other Pachytriton.
 

John

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Re: AW: Pingia granulosus

Indeed, it's sad to see such an exciting find described in such an inadequate paper. I'm still betting that it's closer to Cynops; doesn't look like any of the other Pachytriton.
I'm sure you're right - I really didn't pay much attention to it when I saw what the authors were about.
 

FrogEyes

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A subsequent paper made anatomical comparisons of animals from near the locality of these animals, along with genotyping. Animals involved were morphologically identical to "Pingia granulosa" as described above...and they were also genetically identical to Pachytriton at the same location. Unfortunately, the neotypes and the neotype locality were not re-evaluated, but the evidence as-is indicates a situation identical to the original description - Pingia granulosa are juvenile Pachytriton.
Morphological Variation in Pachytriton labiatus and a Re-Assessment of the Taxonomic Status of P. granulosus (Amphibia: Urodela: Salamandridae)
https://unibio.repo.nii.ac.jp/?acti...tem_id=59&item_no=1&attribute_id=10&file_no=1

An additional paper has studied variation in Pachytriton, and found four [maybe five] distinct species. Those from the region of Pingia granulosa are the only ones without a name of their own, though they are called in the pet trade "Pachytriton labiatus".
Homoplastic evolution of external colouration in Asian stout newts (Pachytriton) inferred from molecular phylogeny
http://www.oeb.harvard.edu/faculty/hanken/public_html/documents/Wu%20et%20al%202009%20Zoologica%20Scripta.pdf

Based on these two papers and my own application of ICZN, priority, and logic, I draw the following conclusion: Essentially lacking a name of their own, this population assumes the oldest unique name applied to the species, which is Pachytriton granulosus. Yes, I've discussed this elsewhere before, but it's directly relevant to this thread, to bring some "closure".

The neotypes need to be re-examined. If they are Pachytriton, they can stand as neotypes, although adult specimens would have been better. If not, they need to be re-named, and P.granulosus should have a NEW neotype designated.
 

paul_b

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AW: Re: Pingia granulosus

Based on these two papers and my own application of ICZN, priority, and logic, I draw the following conclusion: Essentially lacking a name of their own, this population assumes the oldest unique name applied to the species, which is Pachytriton granulosus. Yes, I've discussed this elsewhere before, but it's directly relevant to this thread, to bring some "closure".
I can see no other conclusion!
Paul
 
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