What terrestrial Salamanders?

Hello everyone! I'm pretty new here and to salamanders/newts in general. I recently got a FBN and he is doing wonderful! I did all my homework and I know he will do great. The only downside is that he was bought from a pet store (rescued more like it). I love this little guy and I plan to get two more and instead of getting a frog or lizard (in a completely different setup) I decided to get a terrestrial salamander instead. I caught many spotted salamanders when I was young and I always loved them. Another option is a tiger salamander. I also looked into Mandarin Salamanders. All in all, I want only one or a single pair. I live in an area (WI, keep them in the basement) where the temperature is naturally cooler. Tiger or spotted would be best suited here but I could always use a small heat source if needed.

I see that several people terrestrial and I was wondering whats your favorite? I'm not necessary looking for one that is bold and will beg for food. Although I would like something that I could interact with from time to time. Is it hard to get these CB, whats common? If you could just tell me want you have and what are the pros/cons of having one and why you feel that way. This will help me make my decision, your opinions and feedback are wanted! Thanks

Mitch

If there hard to get and whats common are both difficult to say without a little more on what exactly your looking for and also where you are(afraid I dont know much about whats available over the pond).
Several species of Ambystoma are commonly bred in captivity though there dont appear to be many ads here they are available elsewhere.
You could also consider more terrestial species of newts, Tylo's for example(there are a number of keepers/breeders on these boards more qualified to comment than I). Many species also have a terrestial/semi terrestial juvenile phase which can last up to a couple of years if your interested in raising something.

Lasher said:

Several species of Ambystoma are commonly bred in captivity though there dont appear to be many ads here they are available elsewhere.

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Wow, I'm sure I echo the thoughts of many here when I ask you what species, who and how? There are a couple of people breeding Ambystoma opacum and Ambystoma macrodactylum in Europe (we're talking single digit people in the whole of Europe) and perhaps 4 (?) people in Europe who have bred Ambystoma tigrinum, but the rest of the captive bred Ambystoma available are axolotls.

No offense (and I am not speaking personally), but if I were you I would clarify your remarks before someone hits you with negative reputation for spreading misinformation.

PS: When I lived in England I noticed quite a few retailers and online sellers would mark Tiger salamanders as captive bred or captive farmed - that was of course complete balderdash. There's only one person in the UK who might be telling the truth about that of whom I'm aware.

xMIDNIGHTx said:

Hello everyone! I'm pretty new here and to salamanders/newts in general. I recently got a FBN and he is doing wonderful! I did all my homework and I know he will do great. The only downside is that he was bought from a pet store (rescued more like it). I love this little guy and I plan to get two more and instead of getting a frog or lizard (in a completely different setup) I decided to get a terrestrial salamander instead. I caught many spotted salamanders when I was young and I always loved them. Another option is a tiger salamander. I also looked into Mandarin Salamanders. All in all, I want only one or a single pair. I live in an area (WI, keep them in the basement) where the temperature is naturally cooler. Tiger or spotted would be best suited here but I could always use a small heat source if needed.

I see that several people terrestrial and I was wondering whats your favorite? I'm not necessary looking for one that is bold and will beg for food. Although I would like something that I could interact with from time to time. Is it hard to get these CB, whats common? If you could just tell me want you have and what are the pros/cons of having one and why you feel that way. This will help me make my decision, your opinions and feedback are wanted! Thanks

Mitch

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Hi Mitch,
My favorite, although admitedly I have a strong bias, is the Eastern Tiger salamander. They are easy to care for, are a large terrestrial sal, can be maintained at moderate temperatures (around 72F or less preferably, but are more tolerant of periodic temp spikes than many other species) and can be quite gregarious. By that I mean they easily develop a conditioned response to feeding such that they appear to beg for food. Mine often come out of their burroughs or hides when I approach their vivs. They are much less shy than many Ambystoma. This quality would provide for your desire to have 'interaction with your sal from time to time'. Of course like with all salamanders, they should not be handled, per se. Here is a care sheet: http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_tigrinum.shtml

Since you live in Wisconsin, the DNR rules provide for collecting up to 5 individuals from the wild without special permits, so one or two that you want would not appear problematic. http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/captive/HerpsRegs.pdf

Regarding your comment of providing a heat source if necessary - you will find that in keeping salamanders/newts that heat is not needed but rather cool temperatures are necessary...typically in the 60s, but always less than the low 70s F.

John said:

Wow, I'm sure I echo the thoughts of many here when I ask you what species, who and how? There are a couple of people breeding Ambystoma opacum and Ambystoma macrodactylum in Europe (we're talking single digit people in the whole of Europe) and perhaps 4 (?) people in Europe who have bred Ambystoma tigrinum, but the rest of the captive bred Ambystoma available are axolotls.

No offense (and I am not speaking personally), but if I were you I would clarify your remarks before someone hits you with negative reputation for spreading misinformation.

PS: When I lived in England I noticed quite a few retailers and online sellers would mark Tiger salamanders as captive bred or captive farmed - that was of course complete balderdash. There's only one person in the UK who might be telling the truth about that of whom I'm aware.

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Ok, I'll clarify.
I'm the process of hunting around the net for a female Leptopelis. Yesterday I saw at least 3 ads on other forums offering Ambystoma for sale. I didnt look too closely(couldn't do with deciding I had to have them, the zoo is now full!) one was macrodactylum eggs, one for a pair of adult tigrinum.
In the UK I know of breeders in Exeter and Oxford(and only because I used to live there) with breeding groups of trigrinum and opacum. Both have had success, I know this to be true as my ex is keepng 3 4 year old opacum which one of them bred and raised to morph.
I also have heard of Ambystoma bred in Germany and have in the past(some years ago admitedly) corresponded with a breeder in Switzerland.
I've been 'out of the loop' for some time, and have never really involved myself in Caudate keeping community's on the whole. Despite this I wouldnt appear to have any problem in locating them. Common may have been a bad way to word it, but I certainley wouldn't consider that rare.

I also have a close friend who has bred *numerous* trigrinum and maculatum. He's now working on establishing a breeding group of opacum. I'd also mention that he used to be a member of these forums and when I mentioned it and that there may be people interested in purchasing from him he was rather resoloute about me not giving out his details and that he wanted nothing to do with the members here. I wonder why.

If you have a friend who has actually bred Ambystoma maculatum, I highly suggest they publish a paper stating their method, as spotted salamanders have never been bred in captivity. A. tigrinum have only been reliably bred in captivity by a handful of people (I can think of 3 right off hand).

His name isn't Marc, is it?

Still, regarding what you said, the words "Several species of Ambystoma are commonly bred in captivity" are, frankly, completely false - none are commonly bred in captivity except for axolotls, no matter who you know or have heard of. And with regard to your friends breeding tigrinum and maculatum "in captivity", we've beaten this one to death on the forum (do a search for tiger breeding) - such breeding incidents almost always involve a lot more than putting a pair together in an aquarium (i.e. the breeding conditions are captive in a looser sense).

John said:

Still, regarding what you said, the words "Several species of Ambystoma are commonly bred in captivity" are, frankly, completely false - none are commonly bred in captivity except for axolotls, no matter who you know or have heard of.

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Perhaps 'not unusual to hear of them being bred captively' would have been a better way to word it. Sorry if you dont agree but its my personal opinion that if someone with very few connections and accquaintances can find one with(seemingly) relative ease they cant be that uncommon. Maybe I'm just lucky, which I'm quite willing to accept - obviously I cannot comment on what is available to others elsewhere as I have no experience to draw on, but this seems a logical conclusion to draw.

John said:

And with regard to your friends breeding tigrinum and maculatum "in captivity", we've beaten this one to death on the forum (do a search for tiger breeding) - such breeding incidents almost always involve a lot more than putting a pair together in an aquarium (i.e. the breeding conditions are captive in a looser sense).

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Yes, I've read it. Frankly I resent the implication here.

maybe you guys should just agree to disagree on this one, midnight was only asking for our opinions on favourite salamanders!!!!!!

Peace!!


Ben

xMIDNIGHTx: It sounds like you know already what you're interested in and by the names you've mentioned, you have a fair idea about what's suitable. I would suggest a tiger because of the ease of care. Everything else is more challenging or not as forgiving of changes in conditions. If you want to try something challenging but interesting you could try to get hold of some Plethodontids.

Good luck.

-John

Thank you for the input guys! And thanks to Jan for the links. It sounds like tigers are better choice for beginners and would be a better fit for me. By no means am I going to just go out and get one now, I will do research to make sure that I'm ready to provide for such a wonderful creature! I like the idea of one being bold and sometimes coming out when I'm around. And yes, I have no intention of handling him or playing with him. I would love some spotted Plethodontids but because I'm new to salamander/newt care and it sounds like getting one will be even harder than caring for one, I will wait for a while.

Do any of you know where I can get a tiger. For those of you that have them, did you buy them from a pet store? (I have seen zero here, just mistreated FBNs) I would prefer one that is already a terrestrial adult. And although I won't be getting one until I have everything setup, I want to make sure I can line one up or at least know where to start!
Thanks again

Mitch

xMIDNIGHTx said:

Thank you for the input guys! And thanks to Jan for the links. It sounds like tigers are better choice for beginners and would be a better fit for me. By no means am I going to just go out and get one now, I will do research to make sure that I'm ready to provide for such a wonderful creature! I like the idea of one being bold and sometimes coming out when I'm around. And yes, I have no intention of handling him or playing with him. I would love some spotted Plethodontids but because I'm new to salamander/newt care and it sounds like getting one will be even harder than caring for one, I will wait for a while.

Do any of you know where I can get a tiger. For those of you that have them, did you buy them from a pet store? (I have seen zero here, just mistreated FBNs) I would prefer one that is already a terrestrial adult. And although I won't be getting one until I have everything setup, I want to make sure I can line one up or at least know where to start!
Thanks again

Mitch

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Hi Mitch
My tigers are wild caught. Regarding purchasing or selling, that gets tricky and is very dependent on your state's DNR rules. As an example, here in Indiana, you can collect without a license 4 tigers. It is illegal, however, to purchase or sell these native species. You would want to scrutinize your state's laws regarding purchasing.