Illness/Sickness: Mudpuppy has smooth white patches on face

Markgilst · Jul 6, 2018

Hello,

A while ago I fed my mudpuppy minnows from Petco because none of the night crawlers I usually feed him were available, which I'm certain was a big mistake on my part. Beginning around a few weeks ago (if not earlier) I've begun to notice smooth, cloudy white patches on his face. He rarely comes out of the hideout I provided for him unless I feed him so I'll post pictures when he's visible. The patches haven't appeared to have been bothering him (he's not rubbing or scratching them) but I have noticed his behavior is a little strange; he's gotten a little less active and sometimes he prefers to rest in his hideout with his tail end near the opening instead of his head. Recently I changed the water in an attempt to get rid of at least some of whatever is affecting him. Can anyone diagnose what this could be and provide solutions for treatment?

Ekmanor · Jul 6, 2018

I am by no means an expert, but from what you described it sounds like your little fella is having troubles with his 'slime coat'. If I remember correctly issues with a slime coat have to do with bad water quality and possibly fungus? (Don't quote me on that...) what are your water parameters? Temp? Other than the feeder fish is there anything different you've been doing to his tank or food? Also- we REALLY need a pic to help diagnose the problem. I suggest using Imgur. Good luck and hope we can help!

Markgilst · Jul 7, 2018

Here are the pictures I have so far. I know they're not good quality so I'll take more later if I can get him to come out

Markgilst · Jul 8, 2018

More photos

Jensino · Jul 8, 2018

It could be a bacterial infection. As long as it not worsen I would keep monitoring and ensure high water quality and keep temperature as low as possible. That should be enough to cure those symptoms over a period of a few weeks.

If your mudpuppy stops eating or if it develops ulcer only a vet can help.

Markgilst · Jul 10, 2018

Jensino said:
It could be a bacterial infection. As long as it not worsen I would keep monitoring and ensure high water quality and keep temperature as low as possible. That should be enough to cure those symptoms over a period of a few weeks.

If your mudpuppy stops eating or if it develops ulcer only a vet can help.

Where I live there's a bit of a heatwave right now so even though I've had the AC on I can't be certain that I'm keeping the water at an ideally low temp. I just fed him a nightcrawler though and he very eagerly snapped it up, so whatever he has probably isn't something that would reduce his appetite. Still, I also haven't fed him in at least a week or two so that could also be keeping his appetite going.

RoreyRoreyRorey · Jul 10, 2018

Just curious, by mudpuppy do you mean a tiger salamander larva or a Necturus maculosus? If it’s the latter, can I ask where you got it? My friend has been looking for one for ages.
I would also agree that it is either an issue with the slime coat or a bacterial infection. It almost looks like columnaris, which can be serious and might merit a trip to a vet.

RoreyRoreyRorey · Jul 10, 2018

Here is a little thing I found on Columnaris, unfortunately it sounds like what you described and needs to be treated quickly or it could become lethal if it is actually Columnaris.
One form of potentially deadly bacterium that can be treated quite easily if caught in its early stages is Chondrococcus columnaris (commonly called Columnaris). This is a white fungus-like disease often confused with Saprolegnia, a common water-bourne fungus. Animals tend to lose their appetite and become sluggish, and then become covered in white/grey patches of bacteria. It's easiest and best to treat while still in its early stages. One treatment recommended by Heather Eisthen on the Urodeles newsgroup is to dip the effected animal in sea water for 10 minutes a day for three days in a row).
Holtfreter's solution in higher than normal concentrations is also effective against Columnaris, as is the use of a salt bath. Place the animal in a salt bath for about 10 minutes once or twice a day. A salt bath is prepared using 2-3 teaspoons of salt (table salt, cooking salt, or iodized salt, but not "low" or "low-sodium" salt) per litre/two pints. Don't leave the Axolotl in the salt bath for more than 15 minutes each time, because the salt will start to damage the Axolotl's skin and particularly its gills. Of course, this is all useless if the animal is still under stress when put back in its aquarium (strong-flowing water, high water temperature, bad water quality, etc....).

Markgilst · Jul 11, 2018

RoreyRoreyRorey said:
Here is a little thing I found on Columnaris, unfortunately it sounds like what you described and needs to be treated quickly or it could become lethal if it is actually Columnaris.
One form of potentially deadly bacterium that can be treated quite easily if caught in its early stages is Chondrococcus columnaris (commonly called Columnaris). This is a white fungus-like disease often confused with Saprolegnia, a common water-bourne fungus. Animals tend to lose their appetite and become sluggish, and then become covered in white/grey patches of bacteria. It's easiest and best to treat while still in its early stages. One treatment recommended by Heather Eisthen on the Urodeles newsgroup is to dip the effected animal in sea water for 10 minutes a day for three days in a row).
Holtfreter's solution in higher than normal concentrations is also effective against Columnaris, as is the use of a salt bath. Place the animal in a salt bath for about 10 minutes once or twice a day. A salt bath is prepared using 2-3 teaspoons of salt (table salt, cooking salt, or iodized salt, but not "low" or "low-sodium" salt) per litre/two pints. Don't leave the Axolotl in the salt bath for more than 15 minutes each time, because the salt will start to damage the Axolotl's skin and particularly its gills. Of course, this is all useless if the animal is still under stress when put back in its aquarium (strong-flowing water, high water temperature, bad water quality, etc....).

Would the loss of appetite associated with Columnaris still occur in an animal that hasn't been fed in a while? My mudpuppy (Necturus Maculosus, acquired from a local pet store 8 years ago since you were wondering :happy: ) readily ate after I fed him last night. Also, given that he spends most of his time in the little shelter he was seen peeking out of in the photo, I am worried about whether or not going out of my way to remove him from the enclosure to put him in a salt bath daily would stress him out and further compromise his health/immune system or if the benefits of that would outweigh the risks. Additionally, I've heard about Holtfreter's solution being used in aquariums that weren't just quarantine tanks and am curious about 1) what salts Holtfreter's solution is made of and 2) if adding it to the main tank would be a good idea that wouldn't affect the beneficial bacteria established in the tank

Markgilst · Jul 19, 2018

On Sunday I noticed the patches seemed to proliferate. Nevertheless he still actively pursued food, albeit while avoiding venturing out into the light as much as he's usually comfortable with doing.

Markgilst · Jul 19, 2018

Today I checked on him again and it seems like his patches are slowly starting to go away, but also I wouldn't want to speak too soon. Still a voracious appetite but still avoiding leaving his cave too much.

Markgilst · Sep 2, 2018

Months after starting this thread, my mudpuppy still appears to have the skin problems I mentioned much earlier. However, I am also starting to suspect that this could be not because of some of the feeder fish I provide with him occasionally (given that I've been able to feed him minnows for years without anything weird cropping up) but instead because my cat sometimes drinks water from the filter of his tank, which is left with the top off to allow for the duckweed growing at the surface to photosynthesize. If anyone would like to correct me on this, please do.

In addition to this, I would like to know how I could treat his skin problem without being too invasive, given that he spends most of his time within a cave-like structure i set up in the tank and to repeatedly move him out of it to give him saltwater baths would stress him out beyond belief. Would putting freshwater aquarium salts (i.e. Holtfreter's solution) directly into the tank be an appropriate measure?

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Illness/Sickness: Mudpuppy has smooth white patches on face

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