The longest running Amphibian Community on the Internet.

Tags Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Caudata.org Store

Notices

Fire Salamanders (Salamandra) The first salamanders described, this diverse genus of species and subspecies can be found throughout Europe and the Near-East. They are the animals that first come to mind when most people hear the word "salamander".

Reply

 

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 13th June 2007   #1
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 34
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default What do i do with them??

So i came back home yesterday after finishing my exams, i set all the aquariums and terrariums at my parentīs house, and decide to go out see some friends and relax a bit after a horrible day of cleaning, packing and moving things. I call this friend and she says "come home iīve got a present for you"...so i go and....O_O three fire salamanders! She says she bought them in a petshop in Barcelona. So hereīs the problem...they are most likely wild caught...and i donīt want them if they are. As far as i know itīs a forbidden species here in spain....as all the other national caudates. Iīm sure itīs not legal to sell them in shops even if they are captive bred. There are no papers...not even a bill (some animals here are sold either with the cites, or with a bill that precises their origin).
Iīm taking for granted they are wild caught because they were cheap (45euros the three of them). Also iīm almost sure they are fastuosas...so wild caught individuals from north spain was my first thought.
But there are a couple of things that make me doubt. They are very docile, they will let you handle them no problem. Also they ate frozen bloodworms right out of the tweezers. One even tried to bite the tweezers. That doesnīt sound like the behaviour you would expect in wild caught animals . Also they seem to be very hardy, my friend kept them in deficient conditions for nearly two weeks, and for what she told me they were kept in a very inapropiate set up in the shop. But still they ate for her(crickets). I would expect wild caught animals to suffer from a lot of stress, illneses or even die in such conditions. You would expect them to be thin or even starving...not fat and taking frozen bloodworms from the very first day(it took me a couple of months to get my marms to eating frozen bloodworms...but these salamanders will even eat the ones that fall on the moss). All my other caudates are captive bred and i can tell they arenīt half as docile as these ones. All my caudates eat great (specially the dobros) but these guys beat them all.
I thought that maybe they are long term captives...but two of them are pretty young (the third one is an adult), so i just dont know...
If they are wild caught i definitely donīt want them. But then i donīt know what to do with them...releasing them somewhere doesnīt sound clever. Also if they are captive bred, i would love keeping them cause they are very beautiful animals, but i got no papers of them so i could get in trouble if i keep them. Thereīs a pretty high fine for keeping this species illegally.
Any advice of what to do with them...??? My friend just didnīt know about the laws...being sold in a shop she took for granted they were perfectly legal, and as she knows i love the species she thought it would be a great present...
Oh...havenīt had time to get some pics, iīll try today...definitely nice looking critters n_n



Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2007   #2
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 34
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default

Here they are, first the two little ones and finally the adult (male?).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050321.JPG
Views:	181
Size:	30.4 KB
ID:	507   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050318.JPG
Views:	198
Size:	37.8 KB
ID:	508   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050317.JPG
Views:	200
Size:	38.5 KB
ID:	509  



Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2007   #3
Ian Rigg
(rigsby)
Prolific Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 61
Posts: 649
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: rigsby is a mainstay of Caudata.orgrigsby is a mainstay of Caudata.orgrigsby is a mainstay of Caudata.orgrigsby is a mainstay of Caudata.orgrigsby is a mainstay of Caudata.orgrigsby is a mainstay of Caudata.orgrigsby is a mainstay of Caudata.orgrigsby is a mainstay of Caudata.org
Default

look like fastuosa to me..



rigsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2007   #4
Jennewt
Administrator
 
Jennewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 57
Posts: 12,402
Gallery Images: 97
Comments: 46
Rep: Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11
Default

Even if you knew the correct locality, it would be wrong to try to release them back into the wild, as they may have caught germs at the pet shop.

You could try asking the pet shop about whether it's possible to obtain papers to keep them legally. But I doubt that this will go anywhere.

Then your choice is to turn them over to the authorities, or keep them and take your chances.



Jennewt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th June 2007   #5
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 34
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default

I donīt even know the name of the petshop...and itīs in Barcelona so i canīt go and try to find it....
Iīm pretty convinced they are not wild caught...or at least they have been captive for a long time. But still with no papers itīs the same as if i had collected them myself...
Would you recomend taking them to the authorities? could i get into trouble? Iīm not releasing them into the wild cause first of all, i donīt know their exact origin and i donīt want to contaminate any population...and secondly as you said i could be introducing pathogens. If you could please tell me more about the authorities and how to contact them and what will happen then, iīd be thankful....if not i guess iīll have to keep them and hope i never get fined :S Damn....always wanted this species...but not this way...



Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2007   #6
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 34
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default

took them to the authorities...



Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2007   #7
Coen Deurloo
(coendeurloo)
Member
 
coendeurloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 36
Posts: 357
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 1
Rep: coendeurloo is a mainstay of Caudata.orgcoendeurloo is a mainstay of Caudata.orgcoendeurloo is a mainstay of Caudata.orgcoendeurloo is a mainstay of Caudata.orgcoendeurloo is a mainstay of Caudata.orgcoendeurloo is a mainstay of Caudata.orgcoendeurloo is a mainstay of Caudata.org
Default

You must feel bad about this Rodrigo, do you know what the authoroties are going to do with them?



coendeurloo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2007   #8
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 34
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default

I wasnīt told...but the guy that helped me and took me there told me that they will probably keep them captive themselves or relocate them to some "special" home. I have no idea if this is true though...but i guess itīs probable since releasing them wouldnīt be a good idea.



Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th October 2007   #9
Farom
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Nationality:
Posts: 23
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: Farom has started on the right path
Default

Generally the authorities will just euthanize/kill illegal animals unless they're able to give them to a zoo or something.
I would've just kept them and not told anyone about it. The authorities aren't just magically going to show up at your house with a search warrant.



Farom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2007   #10
ecoreptiles
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Nationality:
Posts: 50
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: ecoreptiles has started on the right path
Default

If it was making you nervous, then the best thing was to turn them in. I have been on the receiving end of animals captured by or turned in to "the authorities".

Don't worry that you condemned them to death; they will probably end up at a zoo, university, or wildlife education center. Many of the reptiles and amphibians I cared for through my university career were such animals. (Confiscated from a stripper, rolled up in tent accidentally, moved into a town with strict animal by-laws, etc.)

Every choice we make in life presents us with an opportunity to learn from the results. Check how you are feeling about your decision now, and that will help you if you find yourself in a similar situation again. It sounds like it was stressing you out, so I think you did the right thing by removing the source of the stress.

True, authorities aren't likely to raid your house and search for illegal pets, but if someone told them to do it, they would. And that would definitely suck. I guess the thing to do now is put some heat on that pet store and have the authorities make sure they're keeping it legal in Barcelona.



ecoreptiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:48.