Siren eggs

P

paris

Guest
i have some sirens and found a small cluster of eggs yesterday(4 eggs) they have their poles and if turned over will re-right themselves...to me this indicates they are fertile. i have looked them up in 'biology of amphibians' and it doesnt say weather or not they are internal or external fertilizers, but since they are aquatic and dont have back legs i was under the idea they were external-does anyone know?
 
Congrats Paris!!
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You may find this interesting:

"Siren reproduction is a mystery because mating has never been observed. The males lack the gland that secretes spermatophores and the females lack a receptacle in which the sperm is stored. This suggests that they practice external fertilization, however, the female lays eggs singly on widely dispersed aquatic plants. This suggests that the eggs were fertilized before they were laid. Either sirens have internal fertilization unlike that seen in any other salamander or the male follows the female around during egg-laying, fertilizing each individual egg. Scientists do know that the eggs are laid in either late winter or early spring and the larvae hatch about two months later."

http://natzoo.si.edu/Animals/ReptilesAmphibians/Facts/FactSheets/Greatersiren.cfm
 
Paris, are these the S. intermedia you recently purchased from Ebay?
 
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...ummmmm...i'm on the doo-doo list arent i nate?, i know you will want to kick me for it , but i did get some-(well 10 actually-but 1 died a day after it arrived, it had that white fungus stuff -but the rest were very healthy-i think he may have handled this one too rough'sexing' her-he swears he can sex them but when i asked how he said it would cost me) the only other source for them right now doesnt gaurentee live delivery.i am hoping they wont eat each others eggs-i have them in a highly planted and very green 55 gallon tank so i hope its close to home as i can make it for them-i do have pics btw-i will post them here when i upload-i have figured out how to do it from my vidcam now.
 
LOL, well, supporting this guy's business is a bad thing, but that wasn't why I was responding. Since Siren eggs are so rarely seen I was just curious as to the situation. You should really get them out of the tank with the adults or you're asking for trouble. I'd really love to help you raise them too, if you want help.

Learning how to sex them would cost you eh? Ridiculous...what a guy.
 
well i am unsure of size attachment/requirements, i remember my personal pic couldnt be more than 151 pixels, so that is the size i chose here for the pics. if anyone can tell me what size i can post here it will be helpful-id hate to post a tiny pic of something really good....perhaps john could set me up a section where i could just post pics w/o responses from others to fill up needed space here....oh well here is a pic of the eggs-there is a quarter in the background under the container for size comparison.
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Photo restrictions are covered in the photo gallery forum.

"Images should be kept below 1024 pixels wide, preferably smaller unless warranted."
 
If siren reproduction is similar to pseudobranchus then fertilization is external. For the details you will need to wait until John's magaizine is published.
Ed
 
ahhhh.., so here i am at post 100! i am wondering since i had dropped the water level to 5 inches and got no results egg wise in the past day-does anyone think water level will matter? during what time of year do these guys normally breed? i am wondering about water temp and level, cause as soon as i raise it up it will be very cool for a few days till the tank comes to room temp(80F). and thoughts on this?-i want to raise the level up too so i can get rid of all this green water and shoot vids/pics of them, they hide enough in the plants and i really cant see through the pea soup they live in.
 
Hi Paris,
Siren eggs have been found emersed (when the water has dried up) as well as submerged. Males are reportedly able to sexed behaviorally as they bite other sirens, whether this is part of the courtship or territorial behavior is still speculation at this time. Are these lacertina or intermedia? Intermedia has several subspecies (and as an off the cuff guess when they get around to the DNA work will turn out to be species) which may have an effect on the breeding cues.
Petranka gives a pretty good summary in his book.
Good luck,
Ed
 
well of all the books i own, i dont own that one, and i am becoming convinced it is a necessity (you are not the first to point me to it) these are intermedia, from the little rock arkansas area. i hope to get pics of them posted soon. i have yet to see anyone attacking each other now except during feeding-they definitly like beef heart and i m hoping by feeding them up it will help them start egg production.
 
bad news im afraid-the eggs wont turn over any more and appear to be fuzzing...i have seen no more eggs (i am tempted to stick them all in tupperware overnight to see if they will lay again in those conditions) i got sick of the pea soup tank so i filled it with clear water-pics will start in a few days after all the air settles out of the water...meanwhile i found this link that states sirens are internal fertilisers...but doesnt give a reference

http://campus.murraystate.edu/academic/faculty/howard.whiteman/field/amphibians/lessersiren.html
 
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