A. mavortium shedding problem

A quick update.
Fortunately after my last post she has been fine; although about three weeks ago I checked her and she had some smaller black spots, and I quickly assumed it was the same as last time. She didn't lost her appetite or attitude though, so I didn't worried too much right off the bat since I found about it way earlier than last time.

In the very same day I found it I moved her to a tub with paper towel only and treated her with canesten (clotrimazole ointment). I applied it two days in a row, then rested 2 days; and after I applied it again three days in a row. After that she was still in the paper towel tub for about a week, and I would only apply some canesten to the paper towel to see if she would stick to some of it, but I do think this method isn't very effective. Regardless, I checked on her today (a week after I placed her on her tub with new substrate) and she looks just fine, and doesn't seem to have any dark spots.

Just to once again give an update and let this be saved for future reference if needed by someone.

My salamander got sick, yet again. I'm not really sure why. In her new setup I will use 3 times as much substrate as I used to use (in case the sickness derives from bacteria accumulation due to feces) and a I will also use a big cork bark piece, that enables her to get completely "dry" in the belly as well. Not sure if the problem appears due to this factors, but I can't think of anything else.

Either way, I noticed my sal was getting sick again about 2 months ago. She had a lot of black spots, specially in the belly. Different from last times I would say, her skin was very dry looking and also to the touch. I've placed her in a plastic container with nothing but moist paper towel.





I've tried silvadene and canestene like last time for a week. Nothing changed, she wouldn't shed her skin.

As a side note, she would still eat normally. No change in that aspect. She would walk as if she didn't wanted to touch with her belly in the substrate.

By now I was getting worried, and suspected it might be a bacterial infection of some sort. I tried to get baytril from the vet, but they wouldn't sell it to me without the vet looking at her... So some time after (almost another week after I think) they received an exotic vet and I took her there. They injected some vitamins with a needle, recommended baytril treatment and then stabbed my wallet pretty hard too.

I did at least 2 weeks of baytril treatment, with 50mg in 500ml of water for about 5-8 hours a day. She fortunately shed her skin some time after the first treatments, with some spots still visible in the belly, but with a nice improvement.





I've started to notice that some spots would comeback very faint in her face. I assumed this were bacteria that maybe were getting resistant to the treatment. So I looked for new antibiotic options, to end this once and for all (so I hope).

In this website I saw other 3 options: triple sulfa, nitrofurazone and kanamycin.
I asked another vet, for any of these, they said they had triple sulfa and kanamycin available (different antibiotic names, they told be they had the same active ingredients, they were trivetrin and gentamicin). I've bough enough of the two for 5 treatments each.

I did treatments of 50mg of gentamicin in 500ml and 100mg of trivetrin in 500ml as well. In this case however, no one told be recommended concentrations or anything.

The salamander since day 0 as shed 4 or 5 times and is looking much, much better than from the start. I'm still overlooking her to see if the power treatment was successful at eradicating the persisting bacteria.

I'll continue to update in the future.

Cheers

Even though the animal appeared to be doing better after the power treatment, black spots are making a comeback yet again. This time, a finger in a rear limb is "shrinking" and I believe a piece of bone from the finger is visible. All other fingers look normal. I have no idea what's happening now, and have no idea on how to proceed from now on.

I have applied trosyd (tioconazole ointment) to see if anything happens.
My hopes are getting slim.

Just to remind, the animal seems to behave normally.

It might be a good idea to take her back to the vet. The problem you see with her finger may be a sign of another bacterial infection.

Best of luck with your salamander, she is lovely, and I hope that she makes a full recovery.

Thanks for the support Donna, but the situation really looks bad, unfortunately.

I'll try something unorthodox as a last resort, seeing that I don't really know what else to do, based on some facts, but I don't have any idea if it could work positively.
Amphibians have "good" bacteria living in it's skin. My hypothesis is that with the treatment, all the bacteria were killed, good or bad (this seems a reasonable assumption), but maybe the infectious bacteria were quicker at making the comeback. I'll use the same 3 antibiotics (trivetrin, gentamicin and baytril) but this time, the 3 at the same time (given in smaller doses). I'll do at least 10 sessions like this. Maybe even let the salamander soak in the solution all day, only removing her to replace the old solution with new one. One day after completing this treatment, I will rub my Ambystoma opacum with a swab, and then, rub it in the mavortium; with this I hope to pass some good bacteria back to the mavortium as quickly as possible. I'll be doing this for a while every day. It's risky I would guess, but it's the only idea I've had.

Also, one of her fingers is gone, and can only see bone. Not really sure why only that finger looks like that.

Hopefully I'll start the treatment tomorrow.

The animal has now skin sores, specially noticeable in the armpits and "legpits". She's moving really odd and hasn't eaten in almost two weeks, since she ignores food items.

I hate to say this, but I think it's over for her. I've tried different things and she only gets worse now. I'm considering euthanasia at this point.

I'm so sorry to hear that your salamander is so unwell.
Is it worth posting some pictures to see if anyone here can offer any advice?

Here is a photo of her yesterday



The symptoms are:
-Black spots in her dorsal area (she has shed most of it with 3 treatments I've done)
-Sores in her limb region that started appearing recently
-Skin falling off, causing more sores
-Broken fingers (noticeable in the photo, left front limb)

Not sure how she managed to break the finger like that.

I also feel her different when I hold her, she used to be more firm, and now seems soft and weak.

I might euthanize her today, using the clover oil method as described in the site.

I really have no advice to offer but I did want to give you my condolences. You seem to have battled this diligently for a very long time.

I know you have sought the advice of a vet in the past - do you think a skin biopsy would be feasible? If not something so invasive at least some kind of skin scraping and microscopy exam?

Best of luck. I hope that you never have to deal with something like this in the future,

HJ

Thanks for the kind words jewett.

I have euthanized her yesterday. I couldn't find clover oil, so I used the ethanol method instead. It was peaceful at least. She didn't struggle or anything while in the 5% bath.

While I'm sad and disappointed that my efforts weren't enough to make her well, I'm happy it is finally over, and that she doesn't have to suffer and go through more treatments now.

I would just like to know what could have caused this in the first place, and if it was something I could have prevented before hand, since she had something similar in 2 other occasions, as seen through out the whole thread. I've had her in different types of settings, but she still got sick.

I did kept her in a jar, because i would be interested in testing her skin if I get the chance, if it is even still possible.

Sadly the pictures didn’t show but sounds like what I’m dealing with with my little salamander. Black specks started to show recently so I’m doing all I can to get her healthy again.

Aroymom said:

Sadly the pictures didn’t show but sounds like what I’m dealing with with my little salamander. Black specks started to show recently so I’m doing all I can to get her healthy again.

Click to expand...

Sorry to hear. Can you post pictures? I can try to help.

Looks similar, what have you tried so far? Or just starting treatment? How are you keeping it?

Bit of a journey. 2 weeks ago I noticed she was extremely lethargic and off her food, her eyes were also extremely puffy looking but no obvious discoloration at this time. So I went down the forum rabbit hole. I saw great things about highly deluded salt baths for a variety of things. So I gave her a 5 minute half the recommended dose salt bath and placed her in quarantine. She reacted fine to it but it scared me. At this point (more reading) I was assuming bacteria or vitamin A deficiency. Ordered her a multi and canned crickets. I started doing the silver stuff twice a day. After 4 days she perked up her eyes were looking normal and she was eating the crickets with the multi (with a little encouragement). 3 days and things were looking good. Had a really stringy looking poo.
Yesterday she started looking puffy and lethargic again. Today her eyes are back to noticeably puffy and after her bath I saw the little black specks pictured first time I’ve noticed them. She scarfed a worm though so thankfully still eating.
Edit to add. She’s been on damp paper towels in a tote since this started. Cleaned at least once a day.

It's good that she's still eating, but no need to worry for just two weeks without food (assuming good nutrition before stopping). Sometimes acting nervously because of it just makes it worse. Regardless, about the eyes I wouldn't know what it could be. If you want to try something else besides salt baths try black tea as well, and keep her on slightly damp paper towel before treatments, keep it as dry as you can, without desiccation being a problem. I've tried black tea before for similar problem (although not in tiger's) and it worked well.

Thank you. From what I could find puffy eyes indicate bacterial, maybe. I’ll dry up her tote a bit as well. It was also the not eating and lethargic that got me. She was barely moving and not digging as usual. There was another thread on here with similar symptoms (lethargic, not eating, belly wiggling, not digging, etc) that led me to bacterial. And several others that I read of course. And now the spots so here I am chasing every thread again.

If you can get an examination to narrow it down on what type of bacteria it is would be best. Some medication is better for gram positive and other for gram negative. If you want I can send you the book "Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry" for further reading. Good luck!

So I’m laughing at myself. Apparently the black specks I was seeing is because she was about to shed. I’ve been checking on her about every hour and stressing and I noticed a slimy little bit of membrane and the spots I was seeing are magically gone! Sooo good thing to know for the future. Shockingly little on what exactly they look like before and after shedding. Will still be treating for bacteria as it seems working minus the shedding hiccup.