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Illness/Sickness: Sick and Worried Axolotl

XxRixtanadorxX

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Im worried about my axolotl. Shes a GFP Melanoid and shes about 3 years old. She ate some earthworms about 3 days ago. When I went to check on her today she was extremely skinny, her mouth was open and she was barely moving around. She also is refusing to eat anything as well.

Does anyone know what might be wrong? I am going to do a water change today. I was thinking maybe she laid eggs and her mystery snail buddy maybe have eaten them.... but I am unsure, this has never happened before.

If anyone can think of anything, I would really appreciate it!

Thanks!!!
 

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Hayleyy

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That axolotl is extremely emaciated, the skinniest I have ever seen. How long has she been like this? What earthworms are you feeding and how often? If you don't have them get some nightcrawlers as soon as possible, cut them up and feed as much as she will eat, every day (offer multiple times a day if she refuses the first time).
What is your tank temp and water parameters? This is so we can see her overall conditions and whether anything else needs to be changed.
 

XxRixtanadorxX

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Its really weird she was fine a few days ago. Ive been feeding her red wrigglers. I red that they are known to be kind of scummy but we have been feeding these to her for a year now. All three get fed usually every other day. The two males are showing no signs of this weird bodily change.
I changed the water and shes moving around more, but shes still not eating. The water stays between 65 and 70F. I moved her sail buddy to the other tank with my two males to make it more of a quarantine space.
Where I live, I do not have access to nightcrawlers unless I want to start digging in the backyard.
We have really hard water here. I condition the water and dechlorinate it before it is put into the tank. Shes in a 10gal all by herself.

What do you think? Ive been raising Axies for 4 years now and have never had this problem :(
 

Hayleyy

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What was her body condition before? Do you have any photos? She wouldn't be like this overnight, I don't think they get this skinny after laying eggs. How long has it been since she started refusing food?
As long as you don't have any nasty pesticides in your yard you can dig up the worms, lots of people do it. I would but the only thing I would find here are red wrigglers. There are probably online companies (or bait shops) that sell the worms, that's how I get mine. Some googling should help you find something.
What are your water parameters?
 

XxRixtanadorxX

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These are the best I have of her. In not sure when she stopped wanting food. I know I fed her a few days ago. We went out of town and came back. So when I tried to feed her today she refused to eat.

Im not sure on the parameters. I can try and do a pH test tomorrow. They have foam filters and bubblers constantly going so the aeration of the water should be fine.

The water is harder than most places. But they have been find for a while since we moved here so Im not sure that is the problem.
 

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XxRixtanadorxX

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I just checked the pH and it's really basic. It's about a pH of 8.2. But there is no chlorine present. This is the result of using a Spa pH test from the 90s. I might want to get another test though.
 

Tye

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Any place that sells tackle usually also stocks live bait. Bait/tackle shops, some gas stations depending on where you live, and stores like Walmart or farm and fleet supply stores often carry live bait. Some hardware stores too depending on your area.

I'm amazed your buddy is alive in that condition, that's super skinny, like wow, I couldn't believe the age when you said three years. She's so skinny. The goal now would be to get her to eat anything. Frozen bloodworms, small chopped pieces of nightcrawler, brine shrimp are probably far too small for this size so maybe not them.
While feeding is the most important thing, I would also recommend going a bit slow to start so you don't overfeed her. Its easy to shock an animal that is emaciated by giving them too much food. Offer a chopped piece of worm a few times a day to see if she takes, or whatever type of food you want to try to entice her to eat. When she's eating and passing waste successfully you can bump up the amount fed.

I would also do a full water parameters check, ammonia, nitrite all that. Just in case. If she's been in that tank for a while then you've probably cycled it, but perhaps there was a crash and the water is off and that's why she's refusing food.
Axolotls typically lay like over 100 eggs. So unless you have a really large and super aggressive snail, I doubt it ate all the eggs if she did lay. I'm assuming she's laid before with you, is it typical that she would only have a few eggs per clutch? Was there a male in with her before? If I got my life cycle info right she shouldn't have clutched unless she picked up a spermatophore from a male.
Hard water shouldn't be too much of an issue, they prefer harder water as opposed to soft. pH should be around middle 7s. 7.4-7.8 a pH of 8+ is nearing the higher range of where I would be comfortable with. My tanks sit at 7.6. But I'm not sure if a high pH would cause this... I just don't know enough about axolotls.
An adult axolotl can go a week without food without showing adverse signs, so I'm not sure what happened here to make her so emaciated in such a short time. Going off feed for three days shouldn't cause her to become skin and bones.
Perhaps there's someone with more experience that had something similar happen to one of their adults. I hope she pulls through! They can be amazingly resilient. Just try offering small amounts of food to get her to take, and monitor after to make sure she doesn't regurgitate.
 

XxRixtanadorxX

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Thank you Tye,

Our walmart stopped selling nightcrawlers but I might be able to look around at our farming stores. I'm not sure how to drop the water pH without adding more chemicals. Which worries me.

She's never clutched for me before. She was owned by someone else for 2 years and she said she had laid eggs for her. I haven't had her lay anything for me yet.

It's really disheartening for me because I feel like a terrible owner right now... I never thought something like this would happen....
 

Tye

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I've read that a pH of 8 is still within a range they can survive at. So at 8.2 I wouldn't focus on the pH, at least not until she's more stable. Check your other parameters though in case one of them spiked. (and maybe also get new test strips. I use a liquid aquarium test kit for my pH, I have a low end test and a high end test.)

Don't beat yourself up, sometimes things happen. I had a tiger salamander for 18 years and we had some rough patches too. Just focus on trying to get her better.

I'm from MN, land of a million lakes and rivers so fishing is big here. I can pretty much walk into most stores and find live bait. Currently I get my worms from a farm and fleet store, they have a large hunting/fishing section. Though I've also found live bait at hardware stores and some pet stores I've seen carry worms. Pet stores would also carry frozen bloodworms. While bloodworms aren't nutritionally complete as a staple for an adult you might be able to get her to eat some since they're smaller.

If you didn't spot any eggs in the tank and she wasn't with a male I doubt she laid any. I'm not sure of if they lay infertile eggs, but my guess is going to be that they don't. I believe axolotls reabsorb eggs into the body if they aren't fertilized. Producing and laying eggs is a resource heavy process and she wouldn't do it unless she had the energy to spare. Its also why people recommend separating males and females after the female lays, so that she doesn't go and produce more eggs right after and wear herself out.

Check the other water parameters and focus on getting her to eat successfully for now. Once you get her eating again you'll notice she'll put on weight fairly quickly. Just don't over do it at the start. Offer a variety of food items if you can. If you have extras of whatever she doesn't eat you can always offer it to your other axolotls.
 

Hayleyy

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+1 to everything Tye said. Especially not over feeding, I should have remembered to say that :dizzy:
I don't know if it's available in the USA but here in Aus most pet stores have frozen axolotl cubes. I use them in addition to worms when my boy is really hungry. If you can get your hands on them they are worth a try. Any food is good food in this case, try everything you can.
Don't stress out about pH, unless you have ammonia in your tank. A high pH can make ammonia more toxic so keep an eye on it. I'd recommend getting a liquid test kit. The API brand is popular. Also most pet stores/aquariums will let you bring in a sample of water and they will test it for you free of charge. You could do this until you get your test kit. If the results show any ammonia and/or nitrite you can tub her while you sort the tank out.
 

XxRixtanadorxX

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I have blood worms and she wouldn't eat those. I tried meal worms but still nothing
I fridged her last night just to be safe because I was worried. I'm going to do a complete water change and try again. I live inland I actually started raising my own worms to feed them. My jumbo axie at like 3 yesterday. But my baby just spit his out. She wouldn't even touch it. I'll see what else I can do and keep you guys updated. Thank you for all the help! ♡
 

Tye

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Keep offering food items, even she rejects once, try again later.
Mealworms and "super" worms have a harder exoskeleton and can be hard to digest for some amphibians. I'd stick with softer foods while you're trying to get her to eat.
Fridging will lower her feeding response as it slows the metabolism down, so don't be too shocked if she doesn't eat in the fridge. But still offer a food item.
She was on red wigglers before right? Perhaps try cutting up one really small and then washing it before offering.
If you don't use lawn/garden fertilizers or pesticides try digging for a few earthworms too. Maybe they'll smell more appetizing than store bought ones. I know my tiger salamander used to refuse baitshop worms but devour worms from the garden.
I wish you the best, keep us updated!
 

tundrabadger

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Try again later is fantastic advice....sometimes something will be throwing them off in the moment but they genuinely are still hungry and if you offer food again later they will go for it.
 

XxRixtanadorxX

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I ended up finding some earthworms at our farm and tack store. She's still refusing food. I even softened a shrimp pellet and put it in her mouth. She like held it in and spit it out when I turned around. I'm just worried. I thought she was dead so I rolled her over and she started moving again. Plus since I'm so rural none of the vets know anything...
 

Tye

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The best you can do is keep trying. There's a force feeding guide here: https://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70199
But I'm not sure if she will pull through something like that. It can cause a lot of stress. But if she doesn't take something soon you might have to.

There's the unfortunate chance that she could be too weak to eat? Try even smaller pieces of soft food.
 

XxRixtanadorxX

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She... passed on... she wouldn't eat I tried to force her... nothing... anyway, thanks for everything. I do appreciate it.
 

Tye

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Sorry to hear the sad news.
You tried, and that's the best you could have done.
Pour your love into your remaining axolotls.
 
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