Caudata.org: Newts and Salamanders Portal

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Did you know that registered users see fewer ads? Register today!

15 week juvy floating

lovesheraxies

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
207
Reaction score
1
Location
Ontario
This baby of mine has pretty much only ever floated on it's back and I'm not sure why. It's about 1.5 inches now, considerably smaller than the rest but it eats, only it eats upside down! It's not constipated and it's not bloated, it just floats on it's back, if I poke it, it darts off and spins in circles. It's the only one with this issue. I'm stumped. Anyone have any insight?
 

auntiejude

New member
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
58
Location
England
15 weeks and 1.5 inches? That's tiny! Or is it a typo?

If it was a 3 week larvae I would say it had an air bubble. Air bubbles pass eventually.

But if it really is 15 weeks it could be a floater:
Floater - new phenotype
 

Smoxolotl

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
185
Reaction score
2
Location
Portland, Oregon
I've got a 6wk old little runt that does the same thing. I didn't even know it was in the tank until I saw Mama going for it! I'm positive that mine is like that because it missed out on live food for so long. Its got plenty of heart tho, so im expecting hoping for a full recovery!:happy:
 

lovesheraxies

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
207
Reaction score
1
Location
Ontario
It's actually about 2 inches and 15 weeks, it's on blood worm. It never use to float on it's back 24/7, I mean it would sit normally and alternate floating but for the last month or so it's strictly on it's back floating in the tub 24/7.
 

Smoxolotl

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
185
Reaction score
2
Location
Portland, Oregon
Wow thats really small. I wonder if it has something to do with underdevelopment and maybe it took a while to surface in yours. I hope somebody here knows and can answer. I think I have a similar situation in one of mine much younger than yours.:confused:
 

lovesheraxies

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
207
Reaction score
1
Location
Ontario
Yeah this is the only one in the clutch to do it, it's a Melanoid and it looks like it's back is permanently becoming arched because of it, which worries me because it even eats upside down on it's back while floating.
 

Alkylhalide

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
993
Reaction score
16
Edit- i would like to note mine were floating on their backs for 3weeks straight and counting, they still grow but i sat there and hand fed them bloodworms everyday, it was really hard to do sometimes, they definitely didnt eat what they couldnof ate if they were not floating


Do you have it in a tank or a container? I had two like this so i contacted ed zalisko(the prof who wrote the paper on "floaters"
This is what he returned to me with. I dod everything he told me to do and within 2days they stoped floating(still had to re-learn how to swim though!) but by day 5they were perfectly back to normal. They still love floating, but not are unable to so I put floating fake plants in the tank and they always just chill on those.
It really takes what i know about axolotls and water current and throws it out the window, but it works, plus he told me they most likely will outgrow it once they reach adulthood or even older juvenile.

Here are before and after pictures of my two

e2y3ajyr.jpg
ne8y6ate.jpg
qe8asemy.jpg



Happy to help out.


The following internet link should pull up the original 2009 poster pdf file where we answer many of your questions.
file:///Users/edwardzalisko/Downloads/BC_Floater_SICB_2009_Poster-libre.pdf

If somehow that link does not work, select the following link to go to my Academia.edu website, where this and many of my research projects are described. In the next few weeks, I hope to add additional information to the Academia.edu website.
https://blackburn.academia.edu/EdwardZalisko

In short, it looks like the inverted animal (belly up) in the photos (leucistic?) may very well be a floater. Our animals typically have even more inflated lungs, that were often easily seen hyperinflated when looking through the body wall. But some show the trait less dramatically, and some float on their sides.

As we note in the 2009 poster, the most consistent way to help these animals remain in normal posture is to provide a downward current such as that generated by a trickle filter that hangs on the back of a tank. In addition, the BC Floaters should have a place to hang on when they are pushed to the bottom, so that they can stay down.

Research we presented in 2012 reveals that there is some sort of anatomical blockage of the respiratory passageway (likely the very short trachea) that allows them to inhale but not exhale. In the next two years, I expect to have an anatomical study completed documenting the problem. One of the world's experts on amphibian respiratory tracts has agreed to collaborate.

Other researchers working with axolotls have reported seeing something like the BC Floater trait. Your descriptions are most consistent with what we see in our colony. We have hundreds of BC Floaters in a colony supported by our undergraduate students working with me at our small college (Blackburn College).

I plan on presenting a large paper integrating the research completed to date once we can explain the mechanism that causes the floating. Right now, we are carefully studying the properties of the trait and conducting anatomical studies.

Axolotls may float for many reasons that are not the BC Floater phenotype. Most commonly, 1-2% may float as a result of "ingesting" air into the digestive tract. Disease can also result in various floating behaviors.

"Normal" axolotls supplement the oxygen they get from their gills by occasionally gulping air into their mouths. I often see my large adults of normal body phenotype do this. The animal then gradually sinks down, releasing the air from its mouth. So your note about this behavior reflects a common behavior.

By the way, we keep all of our BC Floaters in tanks with downward trickle filter currents and it is very rare to see the floating behavior return. A study we are about to present demonstrates that about half the animals that are floating, and then submerged for a day, will resume the floating behavior if returned to still water in an aquarium. So the downward flow seems to be a good situation to inhibit the resumption of the floating trait.

However, when we are raising a large cohort of axolotls, and assessing the onset and frequency of the phenotype, we raise them in still water in cups of various sizes. It is this still water condition where we will see the phenotype most likely expressed.

In a tank with a downward flow, I suggest a few more adjustments:
1) Position the filter on one side, so that the axolotl can select the most comfortable flow or current. In general, axolotls do not do best in high currents. Their native habitat is typically standing water (lakes in Mexico, that are variously disappearing).
2) Provide shelters within the tank, that may be clay pots (clean, new pots broken in half) or even a clean glass jar on its side, so that the axolotl can further escape currents, and
3) have nothing else but large rocks on the bottom. As you will see advised in many axolotl blogs, gravel on the bottom can be consumed by axolotls, potentially leading to some serious problems. We have worked through this problem in axolotls we had.

I hope the above helps and results in recovery. The BC Floater trait is an inherited trait. Thus, the behavior is a "phenotype" and the genetics the "genotype". Thus, BC Floaters can recover from the phenotype, but still retain the genetic potential to produce offspring with the trait.

Finally, as our animals grow larger, they seem to outgrow the trait. I think the larger body mass helps them tend towards the bottom. But we have had animals float, upside down, in still water, for more than a year! (The gills tend to grow longer, a type of acclimation, to the increased dependency on the gills for gas exchange).

Best,

Ed Zalisko, Ph.D.
Professor of Biology
Blackburn College
 

Smoxolotl

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
185
Reaction score
2
Location
Portland, Oregon
Thanks for that, Alkylhalide! Mine have propped themselves under floating plants so I'm hoping that is a good sign.
 

lovesheraxies

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
207
Reaction score
1
Location
Ontario
Here is a pic of mr floaty pants, I poke it and it darts off and swims in circles.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    76 KB · Views: 211

Alkylhalide

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
993
Reaction score
16
Mine were getting skinny too, the floating made it hard to eat so they would often give up. Mine were in tubs too and i put them in a 10gallon with a hob filter and everything has been good since
 

Smoxolotl

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
185
Reaction score
2
Location
Portland, Oregon
I just recently dropped some full grown brineshrimp in with my floater runt and it sprung to life and is scarfing them up!:lick: This one's definitely not going out without a fight!
 

lovesheraxies

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
207
Reaction score
1
Location
Ontario
It eats blood worm fine, I actually have some adult brine shrimp growing right now! I'll feed it some.
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
    There are no messages in the chat. Be the first one to say Hi!
    Top