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Illness/Sickness: Won't Eat, Losing Weight

Se

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Hello.

Thank you ahead of time for any help. I will try to post any pertinent information. Basically, as there are no amphibian vets in my area, I have been trying to care for a 2-year-old female axolotl who often refuses to eat and has been steadily but slowly losing weight for about a month, maybe a bit longer. Aside from the weight loss, I haven't been able to see any obvious issues with her. I would like input on if people think she may be ill, or if this is a problem due to her bad genetics. The breeder I got her from has also been trying to help, and suspects either simply bad genetics or perhaps an inner bacterial problem. I bought Fuan-2 but have not given it to my axolotl yet as it arrived today, and I'm trying to find a way to partition out the doses to a proper size (one packet is for a 10-gallon tank).

Suspected Problems:
1) She could just be on her way out; as I have attached pictures showing, she was malformed, and adopted under the understanding that she would likely fail to thrive or might die. She never grew in her front legs beyond stumps, and grew some odd lumps on her body that never changed or got worse. As she is a result of a breeder getting an inbred line (without their knowledge of it being one, from another breeder), I understood that all this might happen.
2) She may have some disease that she is showing no signs of. I can't find anything physically different about her, and besides her not eating, she has shown no other signs of illness or stress that I can see. Her gills seem a bit paler than usual, but not fuzzy or like there is any fungus there.

Feeding:
I have tried feeding her sinking carnivorous pellets, salmon pellets, and thawed blood worms. All have been (dis)regarded equally. Usually, she shows no interest in food, and has never been a vicarious eater, but about once a week, she will eat (usually followed by a day of snapping at food and then spitting it out immediately). She's never been a vicarious eater, and often skipped feedings, so I didn't begin to worry until her weight loss became clear it was not a phase she was going through.

Housing:
She currently is in a plastic container on her own so I can monitor her food intake, but used to live in a 27-gallon acrylic tank with 2 other axolotls of roughly her size (her brother and another male juvenile axolotl). About 3 months ago, I had major surgery, and I will admit the tank quality slipped during that time for about 2 weeks, due to a rise in nitrates from food being left out for a couple days. It has since been balanced out via better cleaning, tank changes, and some special tank solution designed to lower nitrate levels. I do partial water changes every week or occasionally every two weeks on the large tank,depending on the water quality, and the small one every other day. Temperature has been around 67-68ºF.
 

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Se

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New Symptoms:
This has happened twice now, yesterday and a few days ago. (The first time I thought just some dust or fabric lint had gotten in her tank or something.) I have found floating white stuff that definitely wasn't in her container before. And since her current container has a lid covering her, I'm positive it must have come from her, even though I haven't seen her poop or spit this out. Also, her poop that I just cleaned up today was a bit green.

So it appears this is a bacterial or fungal problem? I'm nervous about giving her a salt bath, due to the potential stress, because I don't see how that would help with an internal issue, but shall I go ahead and use the Furan-2 medicine?

Also, although the container Stumpy is in is about a gallon of water, I have a 10-gallon tank that I can put her in. Right now, I have another (slightly larger, also eats all the food hence why he was on his own) male axolotl on his own in there, but I can put him in with a divider in the 27-gallon with the two smaller males. She doesn't move around as well on the glass surface, and it stresses her out more than acrylic (hard to believe but obvious in that she acts differently in the two tanks), but she has been in there before. I am thinking this will be best if using the Furan-2 is the way to go, and can move her tomorrow.


(Also I apologize for the double post but I was just past the 30 minute mark on being able to edit the above post.)
 

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AxolotlChris

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Certainly does seem to be on the skinny side.

Pellets are usually a good source of food since they contain the correct nutrients, but blood worm do not. Some Axolotls don't show much interest in pellets since they do not move, and the same with dead 'thawed' blood worm.

It would be worth trying earth worms 'Red Wigglers' (Eisenia fetida). These are nutritionally complete and your Axolotl may prefer these as a staple diet along with pellets. To get your Axolotl to eat, try spending half an hour to an hour just consistently trying to feed, I use long forceps to continuously try to feed Axolotls that don't want to eat.
316S9rYCmLL.jpg

The 27 gallon tank is on the small side for 3 Axolotls, long aquariums are better than tall.

As for your water readings, Nitrates can just be lowered by doing water changes when the test results show around 40ppm. I'm not aware of any solution that removes Nitrates, other than 'Seachem Prime' which only binds Nitrates for up to 48 hours.

I suppose there is a chance of the problem being genetic, so your Axolotl could have some short comings which is deteriorating its health. Perhaps another use with more experience on this area could help.
 

Se

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Ah, I'm sorry for being vague on the larger tank. The 27-gallon is the size of a 30-gallon long, not tall, (I forget the exact dimensions but at the time of purchase I measured it and compared it to a 30-gallon long), but with the tips of the front corners removed. I also use some various hides with "floors", such as some half log hides and other "layered" deco so the axolotls also have more "floor space" from that. (The 10-gallon is also a long.) I fully understand it might be on the small side when the axolotls are adults and/or if they get much larger, though, and will look into a larger tank once this issue settles down.

So far, I haven't had any luck finding red wigglers around here (just bloodworms and tubiflex) but I will keep looking. I'll also try the forceps and spend more time in feeding her.

Also, Seachem Prime was what I used to help get the nitrate levels down, and then I went back to my old water treatment (Aqueon). I didn't realize Seachem only bound them for a short time. Thank you.

Thank you very much for your reply!

(If anyone else has input, especially on if I should proceed with the Furan-2 or salt baths, (as I'm not entirely sure which condition she has) please let me know. I'll be contacting the breeder tomorrow as well for their input.)
 

LSuzuki

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I'm not a vet or in medical sciences, so check out these suggestions carefully before proceeding.

Try metronidazole (Flagyl). It treats certain internal parasitic infections and is safe for axolotls. A vet prescribed it for mine for a protozoan infection, which caused similar symptoms.

Also, try kanamycin with the Furan-2 - they are complementary Aquarium Medications Part 2 | Antibiotic & Antimicrobial Treatments. I haven't used kanamycin with my axolotls, but I bought some to have on hand just-in-case, after some on-line research.

If you have high pH water, Furan-2 is less effective (which is why I don't have that on-hand).
 

RupertxGiles

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Certainly does seem to be on the skinny side.

Pellets are usually a good source of food since they contain the correct nutrients, but blood worm do not. Some Axolotls don't show much interest in pellets since they do not move, and the same with dead 'thawed' blood worm.

It would be worth trying earth worms 'Red Wigglers' (Eisenia fetida). These are nutritionally complete and your Axolotl may prefer these as a staple diet along with pellets. To get your Axolotl to eat, try spending half an hour to an hour just consistently trying to feed, I use long forceps to continuously try to feed Axolotls that don't want to eat.
View attachment 45366

The 27 gallon tank is on the small side for 3 Axolotls, long aquariums are better than tall.

As for your water readings, Nitrates can just be lowered by doing water changes when the test results show around 40ppm. I'm not aware of any solution that removes Nitrates, other than 'Seachem Prime' which only binds Nitrates for up to 48 hours.

I suppose there is a chance of the problem being genetic, so your Axolotl could have some short comings which is deteriorating its health. Perhaps another use with more experience on this area could help.

Here in the states red wigglers are actually not earthworms at all, they are very tiny and bitter tasting to axies. Most pet shops in the usa have earthworms labeled at nightcrawlers :)
 

Charlotl

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If you have any around you Walmarts typically sell both Canadian Nightcrawlers and Big Red Worms (eisenia hortensis) in a small refrigerator in the bait section. I'm uncertain if the Big Red Worms taste bitter or not since my axolotl will eat them.
 

Se

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Oh I see, thank you very much for the help everyone! (And I apologize for the delay; I didn't get email notifications of some of these replies despite having that feature on.)

Thank you for the worm suggestions, everyone! The pet store near home is open again tomorrow and I plan to go there then. There is also another store in a different town near my work, but I know people have gotten worms of questionable quality from there so I worry on purchasing any there. I heard that buying worms and such from Walmart or fishing supply stores (at least around here) is problematic due to them having parasites and not being as strict about the quality. Has anyone else had issue with that or heard that? I may be somewhat limited size wise; Stumpy (and her brother) are very small axolotls that just never grew much, despite my other two that are unrelated growing steadily.

Also, while I will look into vets in my area again, I live in WA state, not DC, in a very small town. The vets here and in neighboring towns often don't even do reptiles most of the time (same for the rescue centers and such too tbh; most only do dogs and cats). I'm incredibly lucky that a vet in my town has a single doctor who does reptiles (however he is not trained in amphibians); and he is only there a couple days a month. But so far I haven't found one that does amphibians.

As for my little one, I went ahead and began giving her the Furan-2 and will look into the other medications suggested (but of course will be careful to do everything in due time and not overdo it). She ate (pellets, surprisingly) again today so I am hoping she might be fighting this off, as this is the most she has eaten in a few weeks. She seems to be acting more normal the past few days too, but I still will look into a vet, and of course will be careful to avoid being too optimistic/assume she is better when she may not be.
 

Se

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Oh, I realized one other question I have: do salt baths help with internal infections?

On the main webpage, it lists salt baths as being a good treatment option for Columaris, as well as some other infections, but it's not clear if it is a treatment for the external symptoms or the internal as well. (And I understand salt baths are harsh on axolotls.) Given what little I know of axolotl anatomy, it would make sense if they can help with internal issues as well, but I wanted to check to know for future reference.
 

Se

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Salt baths are for external infections. Columnaris is an external infection as far as I'm aware.
Thank you!

Hmm. I suppose I thought it was internal since it appears to be common to cause cottony patches around the mouth and gills in fish and such, and it appears axolotls tend to get it there too. What reading I've done seemed to indicate it's an internal infection (or at least can be) with external symptoms manifesting eventually, but I could be wrong or have misunderstood.
 
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Se

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Small update: She ate!!

So I went to the local pet store. They were out of live worms (the store by my work has also had trouble keeping them in stock so I wasn't too surprised, but I'll check the store by my work tomorrow). But they told me to bring in my axolotl and they would see if they had any ideas. (Still no luck on a vet btw, but I'll keep looking.)

Tank water tested perfect with their kit. No signs of ammonia or nitrates. They said my axolotl looked perfectly healthy, just skinny. Their best guess on the stuff she has spit up is it's some food remains that she threw up that developed a fungus around them, and to keep an eye on her to make sure she's not impacted/is passing poop regularly. (I don't know from what; both tanks are bare bottomed. Maybe if a plastic plant piece came off?)

We tried feeding her, and she wouldn't eat pellets or the thawed worms, but she absolutely devoured a deshelled krill. So I have some krill now, and know how to deshell them and hand feed her. I'm hoping she will keep eating these, and I know they aren't good as a staple for an axolotl at all, but I am just relieved she ate something.
 

AxolotlChris

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Buy this liquid test kit: Robot Check

Don't rely on a pet shop for anything.

If the tests showed 0 ammonia and 0 nitrAtes then your tank may not be cycled. Can you test again to see if the nitrAtes have increased? The Nitrogen cycle when complete will filter ammonia and nitrites into nitrAtes, so I would expect there to be at least some nitrAtes and 0 ammonia/nitrites.

When feeding krill, try dropping pellets in front of her and she may mistake it for krill and that way you can get more nutrients in her.
 

Se

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Fair enough on the pet store part. I also may have misheard them at the store and they said nitrites and ammonia are at zero, since I was pretty out of it and stressed today, tbh. I'll get that kit asap. As for the pellets in front of the krill idea, thank you for the suggestion. I will do that.

I do have testing strips, which I know are not terribly accurate, but it's better than nothing in the meantime. (Just finally found the buggers again as I had misplaced them a couple days ago.) They read for my tank right now:
Nitrite/ammonia levels appear to be 0.
20ppm for Nitrate levels.
pH appears to be 7.0.

20 isn't too bad for Nitrate levels, correct? You want them to stay under 30-40 right?

Of course, this is just strips, so I know the issues with those, but at least I can use them until the kit arrives.
 

Se

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Sounds good. Thank you for all your help! (The same goes for everyone here; thanks for all your help in dealing with this.)
 
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