WC Fire Salamanders in the UK

Im becoming increasingly concerned with the amount of what i suspect to be illegal Salamandra Terrestris that are becoming available within the Uk as of late.

I first noticed the problem looking at a few amphibian related web sites for the UK that had all suddenly sprung up with adult 'LTC' fire salamanders for sale.

Anyway my fears and suspicions were confirmed today when I had a flick through our wholesalers live stock list to find that there where indeed adult fire salamanders on the list. I will not be naming names (of shops or whole salers) and I can not prove that they are WC, but it doesnt take much to add one and one together and realise that people are still hoping over to france (or some one in france is hoping over to england), so I'm asking, if who ever is trying to make a quick penny is reading this please stop, or at least put a limit to what you are collecting. I'm all for bringing in new blood lines and even WC in controlled numbers for breeding projects but I can tell that this is another one of those spring time collections where they are caught en masse.

Oppinions people? To me this is quite worrying, French Salamandra populations are probably the hardest hit in all of Europe (Salamandra wise) in terms of collection for the pet trade, and if the ban on their import is not enough to stop the smuggling of them then what can be done for the salamanders future?

Im not trying to start a No WC thread (I'd be a hipocrite if i did), but I know that that these salamanders are collected during spring at a time that is most crucial to the preservation of the salamanders natural populations.

Guys in the south of England just go over on the ferry every once in a while and collect wild Salamandra from France and Spain (mainly north western France though). Thus has it always been and so it ever shall be unless the law get their collective ***** in gear.

I knew that to be the case in previous years but with the new laws in place i would have thought that this would have been a thing of the past, according to a source of mine, this collection of salamandra will be history come this december.

And thats not optimistic thinking, thats from a whole saler who makes money through this collecting.

But im surprised, Salamandra availability had gone pretty quiet for a while, with what seemed to be the last of the previous collecting selling off and none being available for a year and a few months, i felt this co-incided with the new law banning their exportation. Then out of the blue it starts happening again...

If i remember correctly, the law didn´t include Salamandra salamandra. It included Triturus, Mesotriton and lots more, but i don´t remember seeing S.salamandra.

The ilegal collection of this species is surreal. There are lots of this animals being bred in captivity and yet wild caught animals are still consistently in the market.
I specially feel for our beautiful spanish subespecies, because well, i´m spanish xD It´s awful to know that added to aaaaall the other problems the species is facing, ilegal capture is a common thing....

Azhael I would not worry about the collection of spanish sub speices, I've only ever seen WC Terrestris for sale, and ive heard but yet to see WC Salamandra .s.s for sale.

As Jhon said its more Terrestris being brought over from france than anything else, although i did notice Marmoratus (marbled newts if im correct) to be on the list aswell, the place i work for ordered some, so i will report tomorrow with my findings of wether or not the marble's are WC too.

How ever, I discussed the situation with my boss at work today, and while he does sympathise with my stance on the 'spring time collections'***, he also has a business to run, which I can understand. How ever what I did find slightly disturbing was how many reputable stores in england that claim to source mainly CB stock also buy live stock from the same whole saler that we use. Which is quite fishy as with anyone who know's whole salers, they deal in the majority with WC animals barring the main stay animals such as corns, beardys, tortoises and Yemen chameleons.****

*** 'Spring time collections' - as with the Mole salamanders of USA, fire salamanders are most noticable during the late winter to early spring when they emerge from there dormant state to breed. unfortunately huge numbers of these travelling salamanders are collected, and often gravid females are caught aswell, which undoubtably impacts wild populations when compared to say, collecting specmins in controlled numbers out side of the breeding season.

**** please do not ask for names of any persons, shops or whole salers.

I wasn´t saying spain is the main target for collectors, i know it´s france. But being spanish i´m specially concerned about our fauna
Terrestris and salamandra might be the top subespecies now, but i know for a fact that fastuosa and bernardezi have been sold in the UK, and that they were WC.

What saddens me is that there is a market for these WC animals...it´s obvious that without buyers, there wouldn´t be ilegal collection. People should really check their morals....