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Metamorphosis Help

arienette

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It's hard to believe it's been five months since my Paramesotriton eggs hatched. They sure do grow up quickly!

I think they might be metamorphosing now. I looked in on them today and their gills are laying flat against their bodies and are shrinking noticeably. What should I do from here? I know they must be kept in a terrestrial setup as metamorphs, but how should I transition them? Right now they are in a 2.5 gallon tank for ease of cleaning, feeding, etc. so there is really no room for a land/water setup in there so they can crawl onto land when they are ready.

Are there any articles/threads someone could point me towards that would explain what to do from here? What I should expect now and in the future when they return to water as adults?

Basically:

How will I know when they're ready to transition onto land and how should I transition them?

Any ideas on "weaning" them off of blackworms and onto earthworms/other terrestrial foods are appreciated.

Thanks for your help! This forum is invaluable; I don't know what would have become of my newts had it not existed.

Andrea
 

jbherpin

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The only thing I can say is make sure you dust the land food(except for worms), they will benefit greatly from the supplement and it also makes prey more visible. Also in my experience it is best to start with very slow moving invertabrates, as coordination may not be perfect yet. I like appropriate sized wax worms as an initial starter, but keep in mind that they are extremely fatty and a steady diet does more harm than good. The wax worms are good to get something in the belly and start them on "land prey". How large are they? Coloration?;)
 

Nathan050793

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How will I know when they're ready to transition onto land and how should I transition them?

Any ideas on "weaning" them off of blackworms and onto earthworms/other terrestrial foods are appreciated.

OK, here goes-

1. As they start approaching metamorphosis, no only will the gills shrink, but the tail fin will start to noticeably be absorbed as the tail itself becomes more pronounced. Have some plants, rocks, or pieces of floating cork bark that break the water's surface in the tank. When they want to get out, they will haul out onto these. You can put a shallow water dish in the terrestrial enclosure, just in case they aren't completely ready to go terrestrial.

2. From what I have read, you may not have to "wean" them off blackworms. By placing the blackworms in a shallow water dish, they may enter the dish to feed on them. Be sure to have a small dish/plate under the feeding dish if you do this, as the blackworms may escape the dish and foul the soil (still make sure the newtlets can get in and out easily though). Some one else may know more about this than I do.

Good Luck!:D
 

arienette

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I just took a few pictures now. Here is the newt that looks the most far along in development with shrunken gills and a streamlined tail:

picture.php


Here is one of his 2 tankmates. He hasn't really changed much (compared to the first!)
picture.php


Compare those with what they looked like in July:
picture.php


picture.php


What do you guys think? Will they start coming onto land soon? I feel like they're my teenage children and I'm looking at baby pictures. They're at that awkward stage now where they're still kind of cute but you can see they're becoming adults...or dinosaurs.

It's bittersweet.
 

Nathan050793

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It's great to see pictures, those are some beautiful larvae!;)

I'd say you're right in that the one in the first photo is very close- I'd say within a few days from morphing.

Good luck- you're going to have some rebellious teens to look after!
 

arienette

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Wow...a few days...I'm not prepared for this (yet)!

I've poked around on the forums and have a good idea of what I'm going to need for a juvenile setup. The metamorphosis sneaked up on me so quickly and I didn't prepare like I should have. So as not to be caught off guard again, what are the signs that they'll need to be returned to a fully aquatic setup and approximately how long will they need to be kept terrestrially? I was warned this would be tricky because they shouldn't be kept in a 50/50 setup as metamorphs.

I've put a fake, polyresin (?) "turtle log" in for now so they'll have access to land and can haul themselves out when ready:
picture.php


It's a bad picture and things aren't normally that messy but you can get the idea. I have a fine screen cover, but I took it off for picture taking purposes.

Thanks!
 

arienette

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Yes! Well, it's a sticker of a Dendrobates azureus. I am mainly a frog keeper and have D. leucomelas and D. auratus in my collection along with an assortment of commonly avaible pet trade anurans (3 pacmans, a pyxie, and two White's). I have four D. auratus, all still juviniles, and I'm hoping to start a breeding project with them when they get older. Here's a neat belly shot of one on the viv. glass:

picture.php


Sorry, about all the pictures. I'm always looking for opportunities to show off my kids...:lol:

I've also have a ball python, two birds, and a dog. Phew! It's a full house!
 

jbherpin

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That is cool as heck! My mom keeps 2 d. tinctaurus(Sorry if not accurate spelling-I'm a total sal/newt guy!), and she loves them. They are exquisite show pieces, and always draw adorers! She uses fruit flies(home cultured and dusted), and pheonix worms. She has used pinheads, but is continuously dissatisfied with the state in which they arrive. Do you use a different staple?
 

Jennewt

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I'm a bit concerned about how the lid fits over the cords. A small gap underneath is enough for a metamorph to escape. See
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/escape.shtml
If it were me, I'd take out the filter, as this one is a bit strong for this tank size, in addition to the cord problem.

As a vague generalization, I find that Cynops and Paramesos spend about a year on land before they are ready to take to water again. The larger they are at morph and the better they grow while on land, the sooner this point is reached. There would be nothing wrong with keeping them terrestrial longer than that (probably all the way to adulthood), but most people prefer to have them aquatic.

What kinds of foods do you have access to?
 

jbherpin

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As a vague generalization, I find that Cynops and Paramesos spend about a year on land before they are ready to take to water again. The larger they are at morph and the better they grow while on land, the sooner this point is reached.

Thank you. that was good info...I keep both species, and it is good to have this "in the bank" for future reference. Should a cooling period be introduced just prior to transfering to a more aquatic(if that is the way they want to house them) existance? I thought maybe it would trigger the change if more natural cycles are followed.:confused:
 

arienette

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Thanks Jennewt!

I purposely used a filter rated for a 10 gallon tank to mimic the aeration of a stream. the current is plenty muted (again, this is a bad picture and doesn't show it) but there is no current on the left side of the tank because it's shielded by the flowerpots. They aren't being tossed around, and the temps aren't affected adversely (they're generally around 62*F). I don't know if my reasoning was right in trying to recreate a stream, though, and maybe it's too powerful.

The cord could be a problem, though, and I'll see what I can do to fix it tonight. The cover isn't a commercial screen cover, but rather porch screening secured by a rubber band. I have a commercial glass cover which I'm using to shield the log part from the fan of the A/C to prevent any drying out when they decide they're coming up for air. I'll keep working on it, but there isn't any chance of escape, just a chance they might get stuck between the screening and the side of the tank and dry out, which is just as bad.

About year...that's a little ways away and I've got plenty of time to plan for that. How do metamorphs differ from adults besides size?

Food: I am feeding blackworms exclusively now. I have reliable access to Phoenix Worms, earthworms, and wax worms. I culture fruit flies (D. Hydei) but they seem a little too small for the newts. Crickets, of course, too.

jbherpin: I feed fruit flies exclusively, which I culture myself. I dust alternatively with Rep-Cal and dendro-care vitamin supplements. I've tried pin heads, but they are a big hassle. They die quickly on me and grow too big after a few days. The only way I would consider trying pinheads again is if I were going to breed crickets, but it's a lot of work, and the flies are doing just fine for me.
 

arienette

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Jennewt...don't say you told me so. I'm kicking myself enough as it is.

I am utterly exhausted from searching. I didn't think he would climb up today. He's gone.
I searched for three hours. He is so small. It's really a needle in the haystack. ****. He's been gone at most 12 hours, because I did a head count at 2 AM. I guess it's not enough to learn from other people's mistakes. It takes a tragedy for me to be hypervigilant in protecting my newts from all possible threats. I put soaked paper towels out all around the tank as a last stitch effort. I'm down to two.

Heavy sigh.
 

Nathan050793

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I'm so sorry for you're loss :sad:

It's so hard to loose them after all of that time spent raising them...I wish you the best of luck with the others.
 

Jennewt

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UGH! I'm so sorry. Your sure he's not squeezed into the internal nooks inside the log? Those kinds of logs have some large crannies inside, and morphs just love those kinds of places.

The D. heidi fruit flies will be fine for them, although Paramesos are a bit slow and may have trouble catching them. The other foods you have are fine, if you can find them small enough.
 

arienette

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I took everything apart in the tank and looked through the small openings with a flashlight. Nothing. I still have hopes that he's around, hiding in the radiator (which is off) and I've sprayed it down to try to keep him wet if he's in there....there's still hope and I'm still looking, but hope is fading.
 

jbherpin

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I took everything apart in the tank and looked through the small openings with a flashlight. Nothing. I still have hopes that he's around, hiding in the radiator (which is off) and I've sprayed it down to try to keep him wet if he's in there....there's still hope and I'm still looking, but hope is fading.

I'm very sorry to hear...:( It was obvious the love and passion you had invested in them ALL. If you have long hanging curtains, check there. My grandmother has found 1 or 2 escapees by windows(on the floor of course) under the long curtains...A desperate suggestion-I know-but I hate for something like this to happen, Especially since such care was given over time to ensure their health...I can only imagine the dissappointment...Truly, the best of luck!
 
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