Avalibilty of salamandra and Salamandrina

i am very interested in both Salamandrina terdigitata and salamandra atra. are these kept by anyone? are they available or off limits? i am guessing the black sal is about as easy to keep as normal fires but what about the spectacled? they always look thin in the pictures i see.....
also the link to the black sal link is no go from the CC web page. i can access some pictures from google and when i try to back track them to the CC link-i get '404 file not found' -if you go by the link on the cc page-you get the normal fire link.
on the pictures i can see there are both black, and yellow and black salamanders labeled 'salamandra atra' -is this correct? are there variances in the 'black' salamander - i.e a not black black salamander?

Salamandra atra is by no means as easy to care for as Salamandra salamandra: they require cool temperatures (<16°C). Indeed, two subspecies have been described: S. atra atra and S. atra aurorae. The first is quite common in the Alps, the second (with some yellow coloration) is an extremely vulnerable species, only occurring in a very restricted area in Italy. For Salamandrina: extremely beautiful in my opinion but one of the worst captive amphibians you can imagine (we, S. Bogaerts and myself published an article on this species in Pod@rcis last year): you virtually never see them, they are extremely shy and usually very short-lived. Only very few people ever managed to breed this lovely little salamanders. Moreover, many populations of Salamandrina are under heavy pressure so harvesting this species from the wild is not an option (by the way, in most European countries, all indigenous amphibians are protected by law)

i know about their protection-yet many of you in europe have long running captive lines. so are these not available as captives? how do you people prove your animals are captive bred anyways? can i get a copy of that report on the spectacled sals? (is it in english)

I keep both these species.

I originally bought my atra from a German breeder, complete with a "Certificate of Captive Breeding".

When kept at the correct cool temperatures, they breed regularly, every 2-3 years producing 2 viviparous neonates!

Paris, see "Salamandra in Russia", posted on Oct 7th 2003... the thread changes to Salamandrina.

Paris, the link for Podarcis in English is:
http://www.podarcis.nl/main_eng.php3
It looks like their newer issues cost $.

Salamandrina is sadly not easy available. I only know one German breeder. My population is not breeding at the moment. Besides that, as long as I cannot raise them again to full adulthood I won't give away animals.
Salamandra atra is captive bred in Germany, but as they reproduce slowly and are pretty sensitive in captivity, not as easy as fire salamanders anyway as Mike already notes. Perhaps you should try to look for fire- without yellow coloration?

Do actually completely black s. s. salamandra exist?

Yes Francesco, pretty much so.
I have seen melanistic S.s.salamandra and S.s.terrestris, but they normally show a small amount of 'muddy' yellow markings.
I have melanistic S.algira tingitana, that are completely black, also melanistic S.s.bernardezi, where the parotoid glands are very slightly coloured.