Just cant get rid of ammonia

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rosstxttpo

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Ross TxT-TPO
Hey guys,

We just cant just rid of ammonia from our tank! He took out all the sand about two weeks ago and for a few days everything was fine but we noticed our axolotl going crazy so did a test and there was a trace of ammonia again! We have been doing daily 20% water changes due to this but is there something else that we need to be doing?

We cycled the tank for 8 weeks before putting the axolotl in and he has now been in for about 3 months!

We bought some live plants the other day - will that help build up bacteria to combat the ammonia?

We have a 130 litre tank and only two small plants, do we need more?

Cheers
 
I personally think the more the merrier, but I have very little evidence to back that up. Have you tried getting that beneficial bacteria in a bottle?? It'll cause an amonia spike for the first week or so, but I suspect the amonia problems you are having lie in a lack of beneficial bacteria.
What kind of filter are you using?? I understand sand as a substrate doesn't always cut it for bacterial living conditions. Some pourous rock or "bio-max" in the filter may be needed as well. Something needs to eat that amonia and start the cycle
 
rosstxttpo said:
We cycled the tank for 8 weeks before putting the axolotl in and he has now been in for about 3 months!
Click to expand...

How did you try to cycle your tank before adding the axie? This may be why your tank has not cycled yet. Some people teach that leaving water to age will also form beneficial bacteria, but this is not true as there is no food source for them.

If that is the case then 4 weeks isn't necessarily too long of a time for a biofilter to mature. I would continue twice or trice weekly ammonia and nitrite checks followed by water changes if the ammonia or nitrite ever tops trace amounts. The trick here is maintaining enough ammonia or nitrite for bacteria to feed on while minimizing the harm to the animals.

Beej said:
I personally think the more the merrier, but I have very little evidence to back that up.
Click to expand...

Eh, I would recommend against this, more animals contributing to the bioload mean that ammonia/nitrite levels can shoot up amazingly fast and them. Constantly fluctuating levels of ammonia/nitrite would be even more dangerous than a steady amount.

Have you tried getting that beneficial bacteria in a bottle?? It'll cause an amonia spike for the first week or so, but I suspect the amonia problems you are having lie in a lack of beneficial bacteria.
Click to expand...

These products are nearly exclusively hoaxes and ways to make a cheap buck off unsuspecting consumers. Bacteria could not live in these bottles for extended periods of time at room temperature and there are no "Best if used by dates" even. The best you could expect from these products is dead beneficial bacteria which is what causes the ammonia spike as they are broken down. Usually all you get is dead bacteria.

Biospira has a very good reputation in the fish hobby and many positive anecdotes with documented ammonia/nitrite levels that show it can help in cycle a tank. It has live bacteria, will only be found refrigerated (or it should be refused) and has a "best by" date. It can also be quite expensive.

What kind of filter are you using?? I understand sand as a substrate doesn't always cut it for bacterial living conditions. Some pourous rock or "bio-max" in the filter may be needed as well. Something needs to eat that amonia and start the cycle
Click to expand...

Sand is actually far superior to gravel in terms of surface area for bacterial growth. Bio materials (sponges, balls, rock substrates) in the filter can help but usually aren't strictly necessary. These bacteria colonize in films on things, they are not especially planktonic (free swimming) and are much more rarely found in the water column.
 
Abrahm said:
How did you try to cycle your tank before adding the axie? This may be why your tank has not cycled yet. Some people teach that leaving water to age will also form beneficial bacteria, but this is not true as there is no food source for them.

If that is the case then 4 weeks isn't necessarily too long of a time for a biofilter to mature. I would continue twice or trice weekly ammonia and nitrite checks followed by water changes if the ammonia or nitrite ever tops trace amounts. The trick here is maintaining enough ammonia or nitrite for bacteria to feed on while minimizing the harm to the animals.
Click to expand...

We put everything in the tank that was going to be in there and turned on the filter. That was it. It wasnt until after we had "cycled" it that we were told that there is nothing producing bacteria. We did check all the levels (nitrite, nitrate, ammonia etc) before we put our axolotl in and they were fine so we presume that the tank was fine.

We have had problems with the tank ever since and had to remove the sand due to an unbelieveable smell - some sort of gas had formed under the sand.

Can we do anything to help cycle the tank - give the bacteria something to feed on? The chemicals (ammonia remover etc) dont work long term so is there anything more than water changes to help the situation?
 
We are using a Filstar 3 filter which is super powerful and therefore we have it set to its lowest setting.
 
rosstxttpo said:
We put everything in the tank that was going to be in there and turned on the filter. That was it. It wasnt until after we had "cycled" it that we were told that there is nothing producing bacteria. We did check all the levels (nitrite, nitrate, ammonia etc) before we put our axolotl in and they were fine so we presume that the tank was fine.

We have had problems with the tank ever since and had to remove the sand due to an unbelieveable smell - some sort of gas had formed under the sand.
Click to expand...

All the levels were fine because there was nothing decomposing to form ammonia. You can assume that your cycle started with the addition of your axolotl. Were you checking levels after adding the axie?

Removing the sand could have started the cycle over again also as the gas you were smelling was probably hydrogen sulfide. It has a very marshy, rotten egg smell. That's one of the things about sand that is not commonly mentioned. Sand layers should be very thin, just enough to cover the bottom to maybe a 1/4 inch. Otherwise anaerobic pockets form that promote the growth of bacteria that create hydrogen sulfide, a very toxic gas to the axies.

Can we do anything to help cycle the tank - give the bacteria something to feed on? The chemicals (ammonia remover etc) dont work long term so is there anything more than water changes to help the situation?
Click to expand...

I think that you should be seeing (re)cycling activity soon, even if you removed the sand recently. Just make sure to watch the water parameters.
 
I thought my tank had cycled when I first got my axolotl, but the readings prooved other wise.I left the 2 axolotl in the tank and then did daily/ alternate day 20 % water changes for 3-4 weeks and the readings became fine..then I decided to add more sand/ live plants and a cave , this seemed to upset it all again. I then ended up doing alternate 20 5 water changes for approx 6 weeks and eventually it gave me correct readings. It felt like it was going on for ever..but I haven't had a problem with the water quality since. I just kept a very close eye on the two axolotl in case they were looking at all stressed/ fungusy etc, fortunately they were fine and kept on eating and growing at an amazing rate through out the process. I check for ammonai and nitrites alternate weeks now unless I feel something is not quite right.
 
Yeah, the smell coming from the tank was a very marshy, rotten egg smell. When we removed the sand, the smell actually made my girlfriend sick - we felt so bad knowing that our axolotl was living with that.

So the advice is basically treat the tank as if we have just started cycling because removing the sand has probably taken us back to step 1?
 
Basically, but it isn't quite so bad as it sounds. Removing the sand probably reduced the amount of bacteria in the tank, not killing it all, so all you have to do is just wait until it grows up again. It shouldn't take nearly as long as the first cycle.
 
I think so...its basically what I did. It was pretty depressing at the time but i can honestly say it has not caused any problems since. In some ways I got to know my axolotl's really well ! we had chase the syphon and the hand that held it..plus who can make me jump higher whrn they sneeked up on me and bit me ( it doesn't hurt)



I really need to check where Abrahm is before I post my bits!!
 
Abrahm said:
How did you try to cycle your tank before adding the axie? This may be why your tank has not cycled yet. Some people teach that leaving water to age will also form beneficial bacteria, but this is not true as there is no food source for them.

If that is the case then 4 weeks isn't necessarily too long of a time for a biofilter to mature. I would continue twice or trice weekly ammonia and nitrite checks followed by water changes if the ammonia or nitrite ever tops trace amounts. The trick here is maintaining enough ammonia or nitrite for bacteria to feed on while minimizing the harm to the animals.



Eh, I would recommend against this, more animals contributing to the bioload mean that ammonia/nitrite levels can shoot up amazingly fast and them. Constantly fluctuating levels of ammonia/nitrite would be even more dangerous than a steady amount.



These products are nearly exclusively hoaxes and ways to make a cheap buck off unsuspecting consumers. Bacteria could not live in these bottles for extended periods of time at room temperature and there are no "Best if used by dates" even. The best you could expect from these products is dead beneficial bacteria which is what causes the ammonia spike as they are broken down. Usually all you get is dead bacteria.

Biospira has a very good reputation in the fish hobby and many positive anecdotes with documented ammonia/nitrite levels that show it can help in cycle a tank. It has live bacteria, will only be found refrigerated (or it should be refused) and has a "best by" date. It can also be quite expensive.



Sand is actually far superior to gravel in terms of surface area for bacterial growth. Bio materials (sponges, balls, rock substrates) in the filter can help but usually aren't strictly necessary. These bacteria colonize in films on things, they are not especially planktonic (free swimming) and are much more rarely found in the water column.
Click to expand...

A)As far as the "more the merrier" was concerned, i was refering to plants
B)I feel completely had by the fake bacterial cultures and completely appreciate the info regarding them. I'ma go yell at my LFS if this is the case(And they seemed so nice and knowledgable)
C)Once again, I have learned something! regarding sand; I was planning on doing my first foray into the world of sand with my next tank (due to start next week) and am very relieved to hear this news!! Makes life much simpler. There is so much contradictory data out there in the world of aquascape.
 
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