Illness/Sickness: Medicine for lost gills

KittiKatt · Oct 19, 2009

Hello,
I have a question about a Necturus maculosus or a N. m. louisianensis, or MudPuppy. I know those are probably close to the same just different. Like the difference between a Maine Coon and a Domestic Shorthaired.

On http://www.caudata.org It talks about if they get a fungus that attacks their gills to add some medication or a salt bath. Which I have read in the forums about as well however, Never amounts or names are mentioned for such procedures. I need amounts, names, I don’t know what to get or use or in what time span.

I really need to know. No one here in Tulsa seems to even know that these guys exist. I have searched my pet stores talked with some vets. Tried to find books, ransacked the internet. Meanwhile I can see the little creature slipping away from me and there seems to be nothing to do.

His top gills the ones behind his head are almost totally gone now and his tail is so skinny. In my defense I did the silly thing. I took the runt of the litter. He wasn’t the same color as the others and one of his gills were torn. NOT knowing too much about this things I figured I would just asked my local pet store or aquatic store and they would be able to help me and the little guy would blossom under my care once I got him home and into a safe environment.

I was diligent and I tried to be fast and at first everything seemed fine. I got proper light filtration some large aquarium rocks, ten gallon tank, and food. Everything seemed to be going well, but that one gill worried me. Turns out I had a right to be worried now he just slipping away.

If anyone knows what type of medicine I should buy that would be a big help. I am worried because he isn’t eating and today we tried some crickets but I’m not sure it worked. He is hiding most of the time and I’m trying not to stress him out.

I have so many basic questions as well I just don’t even know where to start. So please any help or comments would be appreciated.

I need to know how to get rid of this fungus it is my hope that then his appetite will return. In fact if you know of some great food suggestions, I’m all ears.

Thank you so much,
Desperately
Kitti

Greatwtehunter · Oct 19, 2009

I can't help you with the medicine names but if it is in fact fungus then a salt bath should do the trick.

Here's how to do a salt bath,
-Prepare a tub of fresh dechlorinated water, put enough water to cover the mudpuppy's back
-Dissolve 2-3 teaspoons of salt per litre of water (DO NOT use table salt.)
-Once salt is dissolved place the salamander in the bath
-Leave the mudpuppy in the salt bath for ten minutes, but no longer than 15 minutes or the salt will start to damage it's skin and gills.

As for food, what exactly have you tried feeding it? The best item to feed them are earthworms, they will rarely turn them down.

KittiKatt · Oct 19, 2009

Thank you so much! I will do so. By "not table salt" you mean the salt with no iodine in it, right? Just straight sodium?

Feeding Salamander pellets which when he first arrived home was very excited about eating them now he just ignores them. Tried crickets today, he pretty much ignored them as well. I had read that earthworms could carry parasites so didn't go that way but perhaps I will have to. You have had luck with earthworms then, no horror stories. At this point though if he will eat it i think ill give him anything!

Greatwtehunter · Oct 19, 2009

You can use kosher salt, aquarium salt, or even sea salt. I prefer the aquarium salt since it tends to dissolve more easily and evenly.

You run the risk of parasites with any live food item, it's just that some are more high risk than others. I have fed thousands of worms to my critters without an incident. Worms should make up the majority, let's say 90%, of your salamanders diet.

Kaysie · Oct 19, 2009

Are you sure you have a mudpuppy and not an axolotl or a tiger salamander larva?

Mudpuppies aren't commonly available in the pet trade, and the 'runt of the litter' comment leads me to assume there were multiple animals there, which doesn't especially lend itself to mudpuppies. And a 10 gallon tank is NOT big enough for a mudpuppy, as the can get 14+ inches long.

KittiKatt · Oct 20, 2009

------- This morning at 10 am central didn’t have time to actually post it.
Cool I will go buy some aquarium salt today and get some worms.
I knew he would need a bigger tank later on but right now he is on 5 inches long.

To tell truth since this is my first encounter with amphibians I do not know what kind he is. I had noticed last night that he was very similar to an axolotl I have looked at lots of online pictures and read descriptions and I can’t make out the difference between Necturus maculosus or axolotl.
I can tell you he has 4 legs he uses them to get around and swim although I have never seen him use them to climb on any of the rocks or surfaces I have provided. He stores his fat in his tail and is cold water. He has 5 toes on the back feet and 4 on the front.

There were at least 30 in a giant huge igloo cooler at the booth where he was selling them. At the time I was there the breeder had stepped away, so I never met the breeder, however his helper was telling me the little that he knew. He did give me the breeder’s phone number to call and I have been trying to reach him with no luck. I am normally not so impulsive especially when it comes to animals, but the assistant assured me that if I had reptiles in my past that making the switch to amphibian especially this species would be an easy leap. (Ha I made a pun)

_________ listing the details of the day was written after work....
Ok, today I cleaned the tank totally instead of just doing a 20 percent change. Like last week. The set up has only had 2 cleanings total. I have only had him for those 2 weeks. I got scared out of my mind because he was shedding and everything I read online didn’t say anything about shedding. There was a full complete tiny glove in the bottom of the tank. I had read that if water conditions were not right that one type would morph but then again I thought mine wasn’t supposed to be morphing and so far he wasn’t even interested in air, he wanted to be under water all the time.

I was so worried that he wouldn’t be able to get air. I was worried he wasn’t eating. I was worried the last time I saw his gills they were tiny and tucked under the back of his neck and very purple. I was worried about the condition of his jaw it looked funny and his eyes too in fact I thought his whole head was shrinking. In reptiles jaw strength is very important and I could always tell how my lizards were feeling by their jaw line.

So I put him in this cricket keeper filled with water from the tank, a rock, and lots of food. I figured this is his chance to eat and it won’t hurt the condition of the new tank’s water. I gave him 2 crickets, 2 salamander cubes made from a gelatin like substance and 3 pellets. I cleaned the tank but didn’t scrub anything. I also put in a new filter cartridge that was more on the bio side then just charcoal.

I got the aquarium all set up and then I had to go to work. I took one last look at Seamoore and prayed. For the first time though he was breathing in fact his gills were totally gone. I feared the worst.

I came home today after work with new supplies, the salt, brine shrimp, as they didn’t have any worms and the bait shop was already closed. I got a new rock and a new cave. For some reason he looked different. His jaw looked so much better. Then I noticed some dead skin on the bottom of tank. I bet it was his jaw. He ate one cricket and left all the rest. I began to prepare the salt bath although it hit me that he had changed and it probably was all too late. And at least he was up on the rock and breathing air when I got home.

I went ahead and gave him the salt bath. It didn’t seem to bother him he started to get a little squirmy at 8 minutes so I took him out. I took some pictures and I plopped him into his new tank. He moved as normal to his favorite hiding spot but he didn’t stay too long. Too my surprise he came back and crawled up the water fall. WHICH I had wanted him to do to begin with but he never seemed interested.

Now suddenly he is breathing and crawling.

OK so he didn’t have a fungus? Perhaps my water conditions were just to poor for him? I had read somewhere in the tons of research that if water conditions are poor they will go ahead and morph? I didn’t know whether or not to believe that. BUT he seems so much better today and he is crawling. SO what did I do wrong? Or maybe I just have a Tiger salamander?

SO my friends what do I do now? DO I need to go ahead and by the separator that will hold land in half the aquarium? Is he truly ok? I feel like I just hatched something. To see him crawl on the rock water fall it was like watching the dawn of time. 8) I couldn’t have been more excited!
I am a little sad though to see the mudpuppy part of him go... I can’t call him Seamoore anymore can I? LOL

Sorry such a long post... I just really wanted to share...
OH I took pics and videos I’m going to post them on youtube and I will give you the link in my next post. I am sure you all can help me point out that everything I’m doing is wrong but perhaps if we work together I can get what Seamoore needs.

Also if I got a real Necturus Maculosus will this type of set up be adequate but on a larger scale?.... What can I do to prevent a morph? LOL now I’m really full of questions.... I hope you all enjoying the excitement and fear of a newbie amphibian owner. 8)

Thank you so much for all your help! I wrote down the salt bath recipe in case I might need it in the future.

Sincerely,
Kitti

Rikkoshaye · Oct 20, 2009

If I had to say, you probably have a tiger salamander.

Some pictures would definitely help, but judging by the fact that your little guy is crawling around and not having any problems I'm thinking he's just morphing like normal. You for sure didn't have an actual mudpuppy, because those only have four toes on their back feet and they get much larger. And, of course, they don't morph.

Greatwtehunter · Oct 20, 2009

Sounds like you have a tiger salamander now. Read this caresheet, it should have all the info you'll need to get started.

KittiKatt · Oct 20, 2009

Wow thanks all! I couldnt have made it this far without your help. Awesome caresheet. He looks just like the third picture down. I am going to post the pics tomorrow when im not so dead tired. I cant thank you all enough!

KittiKatt · Oct 21, 2009

Thanks you so much for all your help. He is doing so much better today he is moving and swimming about normally now. He still isnt eating very well. I have finally posted the videos and slide shows. I didnt realize I need a crash course in media. So pardon the cuts and weird slides.

Hope you enjoy, I might post my other video which is what he first looked like before if I can get it edited to a nice acceptable size for you tube.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsah8f4JcjI Seamoore’s first climb

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaj4lLyIVHg slideshow of Seamoore’s first salt bath

Azhael · Oct 22, 2009

Why did you give it a salt bath??
Now that it has morphed, it has become a completely terrestrial animal, and you need to move it to a terrarium. You have information on their terrestrial requirements in the article.

KittiKatt · Oct 24, 2009

At the time I thought the dead skin on him was a fungus. Did not realize that this was all a very natural process. I read the article and I am slowly changing his habitat as the guide suggests. He still loves to be underwater. I am working up a land terruim as we speak. 8)

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