Identification needed - Cynops in wild in USA

This salamander was found in the wild in the San Francisco Bay Area -

Salamanders (Caudata)







It seems to be a cynops species, probably a released pet, I would like to know species level identification. The salamander was collected, so I can get additional photos if necessary.

I'm thinking the most likely candidates are Cynops orientalis orCynops pyrrhogaster - which seem to be differentiated by parotoid gland but I don't know what is normal for what species.

Can anyone tell from those photos?

Re: Identification needed

Wow, that's a pretty frightening discovery. It's Cynops orientalis, and a healthy one to boot. The bay area must be treating it well. Parotoid glands are only very pronounced on male pyrrhogaster. The two species are quite different in appearance to the trained eye, although there are some races of pyrrhogaster who at first glance look similar to orientalis .

Caudata Culture Species Entry - Cynops orientalis - Chinese firebelly
Caudata Culture Species Entry - Cynops pyrrhogaster - Japanese firebelly

Re: Identification needed

Thanks for the ID.
It was a frightening find, the native newt in the area is the Coast Range subspecies of California Newt, Taricha torosa torosa and the local Gartersnake species have adapted to withstand Taricha toxins, if this species were to become established here, it could potentially have a negative impact on the Garter Snakes, I have no idea how they would respond to the toxins if they attempted to eat them.

I found dozens of Coast Range newts that day, this was the only fire bellied newt, so hopefully it was really just a released pet and not representative of an invasive breeding population.

Re: Identification needed

FunkyRes said:

Thanks for the ID.
I found dozens of Coast Range newts that day, this was the only fire bellied newt, so hopefully it was really just a released pet and not representative of an invasive breeding population.

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Poor little thing (assuming it was a pet). I must say she looks in good shape.

Re: Identification needed

Cynops orientalis has a lesser amount of tetradotoxin than Taricha so i would speculate garter snakes would find them easy prey.
It would be interesting to see if it´s a fluke or if there is an stablished population. (interesting is not always the same as good )

Re: Identification needed

Did you take it home? I hope you did.

Re: Identification needed

In all honestly, I'm not surprised.

Was there a pond nearby that you can go look and see if there were more in it?

Re: Identification needed

Yes. It was found in a meadow that has three small ponds, a meadow along a trail between the Nature Center of a regional park and a very popular small man-made lake in the regional park. I did collect her, I usually don't collect wildlife but she didn't belong there.

The ponds (which are permanent most years) have the mentioned California Newts, though the newts tend to prefer the vernal ponds higher on the surrounding hills. The ponds also have Sierran Treefrogs (Pseudacris sierra - formerly Pseudacris regilla) and I assume those tadpoles is what the newt was largely feeding upon at the time (probably in addition to inverts), that is what she (she?) readily took for me. I will make sure she takes traditional food, which I haven't even tried, before I re-home her (i don't wish to keep her, but I don't want to kill her either, she didn't ask to be there). The ponds traditionally had the federally threatened California Red-legged Frogs (Rana draytonii) but i did not see any on this visit, hopefully they are still there though.

I'm not an Asian newt guru, but I see no reason why the species couldn't thrive there, except for possibly being out-competed by the larger native newts.

Re: Identification needed

Considering Taricha and Cynops are Salamandridae, and Cynops is a much less toxic newt than Taricha, I doubt the Garter Snakes have much to worry about. I can't imagine Cynops being a vigorous invasive species.

Re: Identification needed

that's probably right, but it's a good example for us keepers to be aware not just let some non-native animals free.

Re: Identification needed

I am in no way condoning people releasing Cynops into the wild. What I'm saying is that it's unlikely this species could become a threat to other species.

Wait, is this a juvenile cynops orientalis? because he/she seems to have bumpy skin, like my CFBN, newton.

The odd thing is, my other fire belly newt which escaped yesterday, seemed to have very smooth skin and a juvenile, though they were both cynops orientalis?

Do I have a different cynops? Please reply!

Cheers
Zac

Either way, it is just this sort of incident that has led to states like California and Washington to enact such strict pet laws.

If it were me, I would spend as much time in that area as possible and see if there are more! (And then collect them all up.

Zac said:

Wait, is this a juvenile cynops orientalis? because he/she seems to have bumpy skin, like my CFBN, newton.

The odd thing is, my other fire belly newt which escaped yesterday, seemed to have very smooth skin and a juvenile, though they were both cynops orientalis?

Do I have a different cynops? Please reply!

Cheers
Zac

Click to expand...

It depends on how bunmpy the skin was in comparison. Look up chinese fire bellied newt and then Japanese fire bellied newt.

One of my newts looks to have skin that looks like fine sandpaper, another has smooth skin.

It looked like the newt in the picture had relatively smooth skin (like fine sandpaper)

Also, the bumpiness of the skin of C. orientalis can vary. Land-adapted CFB have grainy skin, and water-adapted CFB have smoother-looking skin.

I agree with Johnny, That poor thing doesn't belong in the wild in CA. And that is one of the reasons for such strict laws. Poor thing. Amazing find though, assuming it is a released pet, 'she' looks to be in good health. I hope that there are not more out there.