How do we identify the various tiger morphs??? (pics)

I have been collecting, studying, buying, selling, and working with tiger salamanders for about 10 years now and I still can't find a common factor that differntiates one tiger morph from the next. is there a specific marking, structure, or design that one can use to tell these things apart. What piece of information am I lacking that will allow me to pick up a tiger salamander and say for a fact that this one is Ambystoma tigrinum mavortium.

I have collected thousands of tiger salamanders from different areas and all too often, I see 2 salamanders collected within a few feet of eachother look like completely different species. If I put 100 of these collected from the same area in a container they all vary so much in color pattern and size I can't tell which ones are greys, barreds, blotched, mavortium, melanosticum, stebbinsi, hybrids, etc etc etc....

Am I missing something or are these things just way to variable in my area to differ one subspecie from the other???

Here are some pics of a few I have collected over the years. I ussually collect them from july thru oct as they are absorbing their gills while emerging from the water. I have found some morph out as large as 15", and as small as 4" from the same body of water.

It tells you how here: http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_tigrinum.shtml

Those are some really nice pics by the way!

Cheers!

amazing pics, do you have any of the pond you collected them from?

The link didn't help much (already looked there) over the years I have come to believe about 80% of what I collect here in North Dakota is Ambystoma mavortium diaboli, but the other 20% of the time I find ones that throw me for a loop, and have barred or even eastern written all over them. I wish I could find pics of some of the ones that really look like they don't belong in this group.

I collect from dozens of ponds and sloughs all over the state. Some are known for producing very large tigers, usually the ones with good populations of minnows or some other small fish specie. Others only produce 4-5" specimens, and other bodies of water throw out the super bright green and yellow or even the all black ones.

I have seen in a few books that I live right smack in the middle (Minot) of the range of 4 subspecies of tiger salamander, but then again it wouldn't be the first time I have read misinformation about tiger salamanders in published text. i.e. a tiger salamander's maximum length is 12", while I'm trying to figure out how I caught a 17" that just metamorphosed and a 15" isn't all that uncommon.

These are just soooo variable and I guess my real question is, do we use their color and pattern to identify them? or are these similar to the poison dart frogs where the locality is used to distinguish the morph or subspecie?

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/985/73338.html?1165445133

Do you know this link already?
Could you post a picture with a measuring tape of a 15" or even 17" animal?

I'll have to wait till july when I find more and lay one accross a tape measure.

Thanks for that link it's one more step toward me thinking the majorities of these are variants of diaboli.

for some what of a size reference on the pics above (the one thats bigger than my sons arm is obvious) My hand is 8" from finger tip to bottom of my palm, and that cordless phone is about 9"

Hi Paul,
I have three tigers (diaboli) that were collected near Devil`s Lake in North Dakota. They are olive green with black dots as many you have photographed. Can you tell me when the adult salamanders enter water in spring and when they leave water after having laid eggs?
Beautiful pics!
Olaf

The colors of the various subspecies are highly variable to begin with. On top of that, waterdogs that are sold as bait can end up escaping or being released, adding to the mix.

To be honest I think they enter the water in the fall to hibernate underwater, and then breed there in the spring before leaving. From what I have noticed, these things spend alot more time in the water than we originally thought.

I have seen resting adult tiger salamanders on the bottom of small lakes while ice fishing with my under water camera.

thats interesting...

Hi Paul,
thank you for the answer,
Olaf

forgot to add, are you sure it was a tiger?? could it have been a mudpuppy?

Yeah I'm sure...they didn't have gills. Just seemed to be hibernating on bottom in about 7 feet of water right by a couple of frogs.

Hi Paul,

Out of curiosity, how many of those shots were from wild guys vs. captive bred ones? Really great photos, thanks for sharing!

You said in your original post of this thread that you've sold tigers in the past. I'm looking to purchase a tiger for a pet and was wondering if you still sell them? You can e-mail me at fishmanejr@yahoo.com.

-Evan

again,,,,, amazing photographs, really, puts the animals in a whole new light.... literally