Arizona tigers....

Well, I dragged my hubby and one year old down to the river for 3 hours of hiking, (OMG, my aching back!)

It was a blast! No sign of salamanders, I think I'm going to have to get over being afraid of moss draped river banks. UGH, although the creepiness of the rocks I turned over was enough to give my stomach a serious twist!

I'd love to find these guys in our area. I also live near the Huachuca mountains so I'll be looking for the other rare AZ salamander whose name escapes me at the moment.

Of the two, (just an FYI 'cause I saw the debate on the other board) only the one is protected. At least as far as I can tell by the AZ PARC site.

Basically the Az tiger isn't classified seperately.

If anyone lives in AZ and reads this I've got a pic of snake I've got to show you! I'm trying to figure out what they are. Cute as buttons though!

Well, I guess the hunt for the AZ tiger goes on.

Sharon

well the river is the wrong place to look-they are vernal pond breeders-best bet is to look in cattle ponds (if you know of any ranchers). i find it hard to believe that the state can protect a subspecies-seeing as they are just a variant and not a separate animal-i have that info too but i am wondering how they word it. they are in an isolated part of the state but if they were truely into protecting it they would also ban fishing with bait tigers (do they ?). there is a debate that the cali tiger -which is also protected and considered a separate species than the other tigers is actually the result of released bait from the 50's. you could call up your local DOW (or FWS-which ever you have) and ask for sites to view them they may help you out in finding where they are accessable to the public(like state park or federal land).

Hi Sharon,
I have a strong suspicion as to the id of your snakes from your post higher up. If you want to send me a copy of the pic I can id them for you.

There are a number of states that protect subspecies of animals. Ozark hellbenders to draw on a recent thread for example.
The use of tigers as a bait source is a problem with the Arizona tigers.
As I understand the literature (and maybe Nate can make it a little more clear) the California tiger is well differentiated genetically from all other tiger salamanders in addition to being morphologically pretty different. There are also records of this salamander going back to 1925 (see Storer, T.I.; 1925; A synopsis of the Amphibia of California. University of California Publications in Zoology 27:1-342) so I have a hard time buying the released bait theory. It is possible that populations of this salamander have interbred with released bait salamanders....

Ed

Hey Paris, Yeah, I just went to look up the name of the protected salamander and couldn't find it. But the Az Parc thing, good grief those reports read funny. And I can't believe I forgot the basic pond thing!! Last year I bugging everyone I knew about knowing a rancher w/permanent ponds/water and going "fishing"!!! Well, we had a blast anyway.

Ed, I'm not real sure how to post a pic on any board, but I can put it into my shutterfly album and post the link. Let me do that 'cause this is driving me nuts!! They were so pretty!!!

LINK: http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeAMWjZm3aMmjCyg

Sharon

Its one of the ringneck snakes which is what I thought. I should be able to get you the exact species at home when I check my field guide.
Ed

So Ed, these snakes are "mildly venomous"?? What does that mean exactly? Should I find another board to ask these sorts of questions? I don't want to make anyone angry or upset.

But to help me stay in the topic, I found tiger salamanders at the Baboquivari - at least by word of mouth! So I guess, I'll talk my hubby into another reptile hunt next weekend. LOL! As if he will fight me all that hard to get out of his household repair chores!

Sharon

Hi Sharon,
They have a saliva that is paralytic to worms and salamanders and in this species possibly lizards and small snakes. (This should have been a regal ringneck based on locality). The saliva has not been shown to be toxic to humans and the last I read indicated that they also did not have enlarged teeth to facilitate the injection of the venom in something as large as a human however anaphylaxis is always a possibility.

Ed

Now that is just great information! Thanks a bunch!

Sharon