Bleeding from mouth

Please help! We just bought three axies on Sunday. Two are great but one hasn't eaten or seemed right since coming home. We have a chiller kept to 18 degrees and river sand. He started passing some white mucous looking stuff last night. He 'coughed' up what looked like a poo (dark little mass) then started bleeding. Nitrates and pH are fine. Really upset and will call a vet in the morning but desperately hoping someone has some info in the mean time.

What is ammonia and nitrites?

Did you cycle your tank prior to adding them? See: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cyclingEDK.shtml

The mucous looking stuff doesn't sound good. What have you been feeding him? Also, what substrate/tank floor had they been on where you bought them?

Yes we cycled the tank for 4 weeks prior to buying the axies. The nitrite level is 0.5 ppm(mg/L. The only other test results are KH which is 40 ppm (mg/L) which is usually written as a 4, and GH 120 ppm (mg/L) which I think is usually written as 12. The kit has these as normal, do you agree? The sick axie is called Axel, and he hasn't eaten for 3 days but we have offered tubifex worm cubes and bottom pellets. In the shop there was a mixed substrate of gravel but it did look fairly fine. Very occasionally he does a gulp, underwater, not for air, and he looks like he is gagging.

You should have cycled it longer possibly 5 or 6 weeks.

I'm pretty confident the tank was set up alright, plenty of help from an axie breeder, just really concerned about the mucus and bleeding which is isolated to Axel. All readings have been maintained within expected range and both other axies, in same tank are fine. I'm going to put him in the fridge tonight, as I dnn't want to change the temp for the other axolotl but I do find the fridge thing really scary. My fridge doesn't have a set temp on it and I've read that below 5 degrees is dangerous. Any suggestions on that front?

You should have cycled your tank until the readings were as follows:

ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 5-40 (may vary)

Though some of my tanks have cycled within 3 weeks, others up to 8 weeks (it varies with each tank).

What was your nitrAte reading?

Also, you really need a test for ammonia too, even if you buy a separate/single one at the petshop.

Your readings may also have increased because you bought all 3 axies and placed them in the tank at the same time which increased your bioload.

What you should have done is add them gradually, so the tank could cope with them. You add one each week or every 4/5 days.

you also have to be rigorous in keeping your tank clean of any uneaten food/waste and poo - investe in a turkey baster for spot cleaning.

You should do a partial waterchange tomorrow (20=30%) this will bring any levels of ammonia and nitrite down but won't throw your cycle/ing out.

Also, continue with daily tests and then if ammonia/nitrite still keep rising do partial waterchanges straight after test. Never do a full waterchange nor add any unnecessary chemicals/biofilters to "fix your pH/nitrites/nitrates or ammonia" as this can be fixed by daily partial changes. Axies can live in pH of 6.8-8.0 as long as ammonia is 0. If ammonia is above 0 and you have a pH of 8.0+ then the water becomes far more toxic to your axie.

(Message edited by kapo on February 13, 2007)

I will get an ammonia test, thanks for that suggestion. I did a 20% water change today and the earlier results I posted were following that. I was worried about doing it so soon but all the info I could find suggested that as a first tactic. I hope I haven't exacerbated things. I have religiously removed all uneaten food and have used a gravel suction cleaner to get the poos but they are hard to get totally. A turkey baster is a great idea!

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Stephanie Hogan on Tuesday 13 February 2007 - 11:56 (#POST121375):</font>

we have offered tubifex worm cubes and bottom pellets<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

In my opinion/experience tubifex cubes aren't ideal. My husband also brought my attention back to this thread as our then "new 3yr old axies when we bought them last January" had been fed mainly on tubifex cubes and were doing really nasty/white mucous looking poo (similar to what you describe) for several days to a week after we got them. I tossed the container out within days; and they've been mainly fed on live earthworms, very occasionally raw liver or heart.
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Stephanie Hogan on Tuesday 13 February 2007 - 12:23 (#POST121382):</font>

My fridge doesn't have a set temp on it and I've read that below 5 degrees is dangerous. Any suggestions on that front<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Check the temperature by putting a thermometer in a glass of water and placing it in the fridge; check in 15-20minutes. My fridge temperature sits around 5-6degrees and i have fridged my various 10 axies many times through varying illnesses over the last 12.5months. It has been a lifesaver, so to speak.

Thanks so much, you've given me quite a few things to act on. I had ordered axolotl pellets which will arrive in a few days and I'll see the pet shop for some worms tomorrow. I'll check the old fridge's temp too. Fingers crossed something works for this poor boy.

If they don't have earthworms, try a gardencentre or Bunnings - anywhere that sells "wormfarms" should be able to source worms for you or be able to tell you where to get them.

If petshop has frozen bloodworm cube, you can try that but will need to rinse it before adding to tank (as the liquid will add to the waste in your tank). You also should have a plate or flat glass/crockery dish to sit in your tank that the bloodworm cube can go into otherwise you'll find it fall between your substrate.

Ours took a couple of weeks to settle in as they had many problems no gill filaments, shortened gill stubs, very timid and wouldn't eat for about a week or so. When our white one got scared or stressed it would spin out do corkscrew like swims round the tank then hide in the cave only occasionally coming out to swim to surface for oxygen or sit on the airstone. I was worried we'd lose him within weeks of acquiring him, so I know how you feel!

Good luck and I'm off to bed!, 2am here

Very sad today. Axel died sometime during today while we were at work/school. The vet was pretty sure he had ingested something, probably a pebble, from the pet shop, and because he was in declining health, had picked up a fungal infection. We gave him a sulphur treatment upon advice from an aquarium person but he didn't pull through. I had to sulphur treat the big tank too so I'm hoping the other two axolotl are going to be alright. They seem really good, despite their gills being quite chomped from the pet shop, so fingers crossed. This was so horrible and we all feel devastated but thank you for all your help.

Hi Stephanie, sorry to hear about Axel.

Regarding your other axies, if they develop fungal infections the best treatment to treat it is through saltbaths twice a day until fungus clears. With temperatures the way they've been over there don't be too surprised if your axies do happen to develop any fungus; when they're stressed through heat water or other their immune systems are lowered which is when fungus can develop. I've been treating one of mine for fungus, as our weather can't decide what it's doing, hot one day cold the next.

I know aquarium people may try to help but try not to use any fish medications if they suggest any as most fish medications are toxic to axies. Also, be very careful what you put in your tank on their advice. Better to check in this forum and one of the mods, Ed/Mark/Jennewt or other more experienced axie owners, Joan etc.., will be able to help out.

Anyway, good luck with the care of the rest of your axolotls

Well, I’m certainly not experienced when it come to axolotls so can’t add a lot more to the great advice Kapo has already given.

Broad spectrum anti-bacterial sulphur treatment should be relatively safe for axolotls although I personally wouldn’t resort to such measures without first seeing symptoms of infection/fungus in the animals. If the axolotl died from impaction then there’s no reason the other animals will fall sick.

There’s good treatment information and a list of which treatments to avoid here:
http://www.axolotl.org/health.htm

For more treatment information see here:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/treatment.shtml