Photo: 【A good way】about of stones and sand in axolotls body

Hi everyone，today I have a good news to tell you.
If your axolotl eat some stones or sand into its body，I have a good way to let them out！
About ten days ago a member of our post bar put some little colorful stones in her tank for not slipping but only one day later she found her axolotl ate a stone，she was very worried about it.





One biologist told her that“Lycorine” could Induce vomiting，then she bought some online

In fact that biologist had tried many times to do that and every time worked well

Yesterday she fed the axolotl some Lycorine and about one hour later it began to diarrhoea，last for hours

This morning the axolotl spit out a red stone ，about 1cm

I used to dissect two Axolotls dead from disease，The inner diameter of thier intestinal tract is less than 1 mm，sand or little stones are easily block ，some lucky guys could spit it out or drain out；and some will cause ascites and even more they will die


I saw here，a lot of people put sand or little stones（＜3CM） into their tanks----it is bad for axolotls，and I‘d adviced but most of them didn't listen to me. So ~~If you find that stones or sand in your axolotl you can try this way. Now I ’ll show some pictures of your forum and my post bar， I hope the photo owners of your forum will not mind，thank you
​


By the way,I bought a cheap microscope theae days and took some photo.
And now I'd like to show you

Black worms
200×

It's head






500×

Leaf Mites


The moving of s black worm
http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XNjUzNDQzODE2/v.swf
The moving of leaf cells
http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XNjUzNDQzMzg4/v.swf
http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XNjUzNDQzMDM2/v.swf
( In front of the Videos ,site plus the advertising,not my advertising,hope you do not mind )



At last,happy new year to everybody

Cool! I don't keep axolotls but if i ever do ( i am sure i will ) and one eats a stone i will do this! But it is probably just best to not have them on stones or sand, besides, i like bare bottom tanks the best anyway.

Thanks! :grin: -Seth

This post has a lot going on but I'd like to suggest caution when reading the advice of administering lycorine.

This suggestion given could be based entirely on conjecture and hearsay. There is no dosage information, and no information on the purity used or the solution mixture. Most importantly there is no citation or documentation to backup this claim. All that was posted was "Yesterday she fed the axolotl some Lycorine".

I've never heard of this substance before so I went to do some reading. It's a toxic herbal extract of which is popular in Chinese culture especially in herbal medicine. Finding information on using it to treat amphibians turned up no results for me.

The only reading I discovered which had relation to the drug and amphibians was in American Medico-surgical Bulletin, Volume 12 and here The Practitioner, Volume 61:

In dogs and cats lycorine first produces emesis without other symptoms, then diarrhoea ; this also occurs in rabbits. The animals die with the symptoms of general collapse and paralysis of the central nervous system. Respiration and blood-pressure are not influenced in any particular way. When given hypodermically it produces no irritation at the point of injection.

The characteristic appearances found postmortem were hyperzemia and ecchymoses of the gastric and intestinal mucous membranes, and under the pulmonary pleura and endocardium.

In frogs lycorine produces general paralysis of the central nervous system and stand-still of the heart by paralysing the cardiac muscle.

The author concludes that it belongs to the emetine group.

Click to expand...

I just think we should wait for an expert to comment before we consider this claim.

Yeah, I think that perhaps in an emergency this might be a last-option sort of thing, but anything that's going to induce diarrhea sounds like it could easily be dangerous to the axolotl. Not to be used at the drop of a hat. In fact, inducing diarrhea when there is a blockage can actually be really really dangerous. I'd be very cautious about that.

Best to have no pebbles, but as long as you don't feed your axolotl on the bottom of the tank, silica-based sand is perfectly safe. Plus, the axolotls seem to prefer sand to bare-bottom tanks.

Amphibians in China there is no detail, even a lot of it is wrong, it also is a biological research to tell us what dosage is 10 mg.
Well,this way is the last way to do with the axolotls that eat stones or sand ,not based entirely on conjecture and hearsay.

Elise said:

This post has a lot going on but I'd like to suggest caution when reading the advice of administering lycorine.

This suggestion given could be based entirely on conjecture and hearsay. There is no dosage information, and no information on the purity used or the solution mixture. Most importantly there is no citation or documentation to backup this claim. All that was posted was "Yesterday she fed the axolotl some Lycorine".

I've never heard of this substance before so I went to do some reading. It's a toxic herbal extract of which is popular in Chinese culture especially in herbal medicine. Finding information on using it to treat amphibians turned up no results for me.

The only reading I discovered which had relation to the drug and amphibians was in American Medico-surgical Bulletin, Volume 12 and here The Practitioner, Volume 61:



I just think we should wait for an expert to comment before we consider this claim.

Click to expand...

I found that axoltols could bow to find food that you don't feed your axolotl on the bottom of the tank .
One of Your United States breeders who had 20-year-fed-experience said the sand blocks the digestive system.（This passage--not write by me--- had been in my previous post, but then be removed by this forum administrator ）
Now in Facebook these‘s a group who don't use sand or little stones(Not I created),all of them did as me---Advised、they dont listen to them

EmbryH said:

Yeah, I think that perhaps in an emergency this might be a last-option sort of thing, but anything that's going to induce diarrhea sounds like it could easily be dangerous to the axolotl. Not to be used at the drop of a hat. In fact, inducing diarrhea when there is a blockage can actually be really really dangerous. I'd be very cautious about that.

Best to have no pebbles, but as long as you don't feed your axolotl on the bottom of the tank, silica-based sand is perfectly safe. Plus, the axolotls seem to prefer sand to bare-bottom tanks.

Click to expand...

回复: Re: 【A good way】about of stones and sand in axolotls body

I talk to the biological expert today,he works in the laboratory of a pharmaceutical plant in Beijing.Today I only realize that foreigners are afraid of Chinese medicine! In fact, many are extracted from Chinese medicine with Western medicine,traditional Chinese medicine is not terrible as you think.
But for example, if your axolotl eat some sand or stones ,and you could not get them out, let them stay in his body or wating to die or try some medicine?
I'm sorry that when posting I was not take into account everyone's feelings and I forget to tell you the dosage,I asked the biological expert about the dosage of Lycorine, for a normal axolotl is 3-6Mg, About 8 hours or so, started vomiting




Apomorphine and emetine has the same efect(they are not herbal extract) but their toxicity is more than Lycorine.

Well~~I think the best thing is make axolotls have no chance to eat stones or sand

It's not that Westerners are afraid of Chinese medicine. It's just that hearsay on a 'drug' from a person who is not a vet is often taken with a lot of caution. I personally would not give my axies any kind of drug without medical advice, as amphibian biology is very different from mammals, birds fish etc. Without evidence that this drug is safe for axies it shouldn't be taken as true, and I could not find any reliable infomration on the drug with a quick search.

And yes, we would do better to spend our time getting people to get rid of stones rather than advise them what to do when their axies swallow them. There is an old saying - 'an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure' - meaning that preventing a problem is worth a whole lot more than solving the problem once something has happened.

Auntiejude does a better job at articulating the concerns we were having. You could have suggested any drug in this post and the reaction would have been similar given the information provided. My intention was to suggest caution followed by the risks of lycorine with the most serious being cardiac arrest with improper dosage.

That said, I really thought this post was fascinating and as a result, learned a lot. I still can't think of a situation needing me to provoke emesis in my axolotl, but I'd have some information to share with my vet if I ever did.

Also, I found a really good chapter on lycorine titled Shisuan in Pharmacology and Aplications of Chinese Materia Medica, Volume 1. When it comes to emetic action they gave a brief comparison between lycorine, apomorphine, and emetine.

Thanks for the info. I never got the impression that you advised this as a cure all. and you have some of the most beautiful and healthy looking axies on the site keeping them in what we would say is not ideal conditions. I myself have had a fungal issue with my axies and was advised by my vet who also has pet axies and has done for 20 years to use a certain product which cured them overnight. But I copped no end of trouble on here for mentioning it, and yes a lot of westerners are dismissive of chinese medicine (That would be primarily from the use of animal products like bear bile, Rhino horn tiger ***** etc).Thanks for checking with your pharmacist friend, unfortunately a lot of drugs are tested on animals and I know axolotls are a lab testers top choice of amphibians to test on apart obviously from mammals. I think your idea is worth keeping in mind for when all else fails and times get desperate.