Alligator Newts

Can someone help me out?

I occasionally see Echinotriton andersoni for sale, but they're listed "endangered" on IUCN redlist. Is it legal (in the US) to purchase these newts or do you need a permit?

Thanks!

If the seller is in another country, then it is NOT legal, unless you and they have some complicated CITES permits in place. If the seller is in another state in the USA, it's technically illegal to SELL them, but legal to give them away or move them between states. If the seller is in your own state, they can be legally sold.

IUCN website says they have no CITES listing. IUCN rankings have no legal standing in terms of border crossings or trade unless a country (or a group of countries like CITES) protects them. USFWS doesn't list them as endagered either, so they would be legal to sell unless I missed something. CITES (if they were listed) doesn't impact interstate commerce, only international.

Whether or not the original animals were acquired by legal means is an entirely different story though.

Please correct me if I am wrong here though, I don't know the specifics as they pertain to Echinotriton.

Echinotriton is illegal to possess in some states [eg. Washington], but is not federally or internationally protected. It is not governed at this time by CITES, although E.chinhaiensis should be. E.andersoni can be obtained from wholesalers in Japan in small and fairly pricey numbers, as well as from sources outside Japan. They are captive bred in various countries, but not in great numbers. As mentioned, IUCN status is legally meaningless on its own. Some jurisdictions may specifically reference IUCN listings in their laws, but I don't know of any examples.

Thanks for the prompt responses folks. It seems that any law pertaining to this species is nebulous at best. I'll likely just inquire about animal origins when purchasing and go from there.

Thanks!

Newtist said:

It seems that any law pertaining to this species is nebulous at best.

Click to expand...

Not really. Since IUCN does not make laws, in most cases you just have to check your local and state laws to see if the taxon is included. In Washington, they're clearly prohibited [enforcement and interpretation are different matters unfortunately]. Elsewhere they're usually not mentioned and not lumped into major prohibited groups. In terms of USA Lacey Act or Canada WAPPRIITA, the exporter is responsible for adhering to his national and state laws, and at the importing end there isn't much that either you or the authorities can do to check or ensure that export laws are in place or followed. Exceptions to that are from the USA to Canada - Canada Customs is aware of the US requirement for 3-177 and inspection on all wildlife, and will check for that. CITES is also an exception, since CITES applies to virtually all countries. Echinotriton aren't covered by CITES, making this irrelevant.

If you want clear laws as of this minute - check your state laws, and if legal, order from wherever you wish. Don't smuggle and don't fly from Japan or China with crocodile salamanders and you shouldn't have to worry about proving legal export. Legalities will be essentially crystal clear.

Thanks for helping to clear that up Frogeyes.

Has anyone here kept this species before? I've done a lot of research on the natural history of the species and feel pretty confident that they would thrive under my care. But I'm always looking for tips and tricks to make note of!

Thanks,

Whoops, my answer was wrong. I assumed that IUCN endangered was equal to CITES. My bad.

I've heard of a couple of captive breedings of Echinotriton, but it's rare. I have the impression that they are similar to Tylototriton, in terms of the difficulty (or simplicity) of care and breeding. Very few hobbyists have them, and even fewer come up with the right conditions to breed them, so it's pretty unlikely we'll see any offspring offered.

I know of several successfull breedings in europe,ive kept this species .I also picked up tips from previous posts and help from foster reeves.Their care is very similar to Tylo wenxianensis.Ive posted photos of my animals on here already