Help -- where can I find these

Does anyone know where i can get a small caecilian, or siren or amphiuma or anything like that? thanks

Giving up on the Ozark Hellbenders?

Is it even possible to obtain Ozark Hellbenders. I don't know much about them, but I would assume that they are extremely endangered.

(Message approved by admin)

FLAME WARS ARE ON!! ...........................(love ya ed! )

(Message edited by paris on May 14, 2004)

For those that don't know what's going on, Salaman has previously posted on Kingsnake:
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=440908,440908

well when you think about it mike were are youre credentials? do you have some degree in herpetology? All we have to go on really is youre word and the word of those who claim to know you. Im not trying to rag on you mike. im just saying that technically (im sure there are alot of exceptions here)no one is really an expert untill some credentials are produced.Again im not trying to put anyone down. Im just sayin.

Hi Jesse,
Mike was not challenging the person's credentials, I am.
Most of the people here on caudata.org are not running around saying they have the right to keep caudates that are rapidily going extinct because they are an expert. Most of the time when anyone on this list starts making excessive claims they get called on it by one or more of the people who have experience with the species in question or who have access to the literature surrounding that species.
A degree does not confer experience or even extensive knowledge about a species (or even a genus). If you look at the questions I asked the person on kingsnake to describe their credentials you will note that they will need an extensive amount of knowledge on the species to be able to answer them.
Would you like to challenge my credentials?

Ed

jesse,
one side note-as far as i can tell, and i asked around alot, there is no such thing as a degree in herpetology. i am looking for grad work in a year and i went on line and asked around and couldnt find such a certification program/college degree. there are a quite a few people who claim to be herpetologists-so i had my hopes up i could get an academic status in it.....the most i could find is single courses offered in herpetology at some isolated colleges.(no such thing is offered here at my college-in colorado-where you might expect it) it is a disapointment but expected that there actually exist much more interest/courses in the study of insects-not necessarily that they are more interesting but the study of them has more economic application.

I never challenged anyone credentials. i mearly stated that on the internet anyone can claim anything and all you have to go on is their word. For example, i could make up alot of stuff and the only way to find out if its tru or not would be to call the organizatuiion if i were to name any specifically. Mike i understand what you mean about unoffitial credentials, im not calling anyone a liar here, personally i think most of the peoploe that use this website seem to have a lot of integrity and are above lying. To me it seems silly to ask someone what their credentials are on the internet because alot of the time you get a <font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font> and bull story that is totally falsified. I have been keeping "herpitiles" since i was a little kid, so yes i do have quite a bit of experience. Also before i get anything i like to read up on i as much as i can, then carry out wht i have learned about the animals. I hav been doing this for as long as i can remember, but i digress. The point is im not challenging anyone, all im saying is that you never know on the internet whos lying and whos not(with the obvious exceptions. And ryan i think they are endangered, the only places i think would have them would be zoo's or mabey universities.

Jesse, thats why the internet is such a useful tool, you can check someones credentials easily and see if they are lying. Ozark Hellbenders are not federally protected, but are fairly rare.

they are not federally protected but they are state threatened (MO) (i am not sure what their rank is from the state below) but even if it is not a federal crime-it is a state crime and thus anyone collecting them w/o a permit is still committing a crime......there is not so much no real interest in listing these , and other, animals as federally endangered, at least by the public, it takes alot of money and legislation to get an animal listed-what is holding this up is that our government is not too interested in protecting them as it will conflict with their other 'interests' (read as "special") and the legislation involved is on the shelf due to lack of funds..(gee i wonder where the money went to ...)

..i'll get of the political soap box now.....

ED

I am sorry about the other day I just went to a zoo and thought it might be a godd idea to try to breed them (It wasn't) . I just got mad that everyone was on my case where in other forums people asked where they could buy them and people didn't rag on them. But, do you know where I might be able to purchase a siren, amphiuma, or especially a small maybe even terrestrial species of caecilian. I live in North Jersey.

Hi Paris,
Cryptobranchus were submitted to be reviewed as a canidate species last year. I have not heard if this has gone anywhere as of yet.

Ed

Hi Kevin,
If you had tried to get a different species then there wouldn't have been the fuss.
If you want e-mail me off list and I'll help you with what you may be best off working with depending on your set-up or we can do this on list if you want.
The caecilian species are cool but if you do not have the right set-up then they can and will die fairly rapidly. They are usually only available mail order if that is an option for you (or shipped to the nearest major airport).
You can purchase lesser sirens as "bait" on e-bay at the moment but the person selling them may or may not be doing so illegally.
Let me know,
Ed

Hello Ed I have bought an amphiuma and siren , the amphiuma is sort of eating but the siren isnt HELP!!

paris> i heard that the university of flordia (at miami i think) has a herpetology program.

Hi Kevin,
How big is the siren and how do you have it set up? (Do you know if it is a lesser or a greater siren?).
I hope you have it seperated from the amphiuma as this possibly be part of your problem.

Ed

Kevin, this is not the "Species Wanted, Items Sought" section. This is:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24564/24564.html?1099011184

Nor is it the help section. This is:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7/7.html?1099287329