Why are Ambystomatids hard to breed?

Why are they hard to breed? Are there any exact reasons?

Temperature, Temperature, Temperature. Then humidity. And rainfall. Throw in a lighting cycle, the space needed and an aestevation period and you have quite the tough nut to crack on your hands.
I have heard that it can be done, however, for all intensive purposes, they were kept in outdoor enclosures.

There are exceptions to this: Ambystoma mexicanum, and a select few Ambystoma tigrinum from sites where they that remain totally neotenic.

What exactly is the issue with temp? I know you need it cool for most salamanders, but what makes it different for mole salas when it comes to breeding cycling?

And they need BOTH hibernation and aestivation? That's another thrust of the sword.

What types are you trying to breed?

Nobody knows what the breeding triggers are. That’s what makes them difficult to breed. There is also a belief that the breeding ground becomes imprinted on the animal and thus makes them less likely to breed once taken away from their habitat. However, animals raised from collected eggs are seemingly just as stubborn as collected adults when it comes to breeding in captivity and the fact that they have bred in outdoor enclosures in Europe leads me to think that this imprinting is not a strong factor.

Anything that breeds in vernal pools is likely to be difficult to breed in captivity IMO. Timing is everything to these creatures and they employ a strategy of mass migration to optimize their chances of success. The climatic and environmental cues needed for successful mass migrations are likely to be complex and very difficult to create with accuracy indoors. A combination of precipitation, temperature, photoperiod and humidity are the most likely candidates, although there are probably factors we are not even aware of.

With regards specifically to temperature many Ambystomatids are adapted to regions which experience very cold winters, where ground frost and snow are common place for a number of weeks or even months (northern USA). During this period the animals will enter a state of inactivity which may help condition them for breeding.

If they can be raised outdoors but not in, I think, it's got to be light.

In addition to light, I can think of other variables, too. Outdoor setups would get more temperature fluctuations (night/day, week to week, and season to season). Rainwater rather than tap water. Changes in moisture levels on the land area. And outdoor setups are usually larger.

I suspect space is a factor. Like most Bufonids they need to go walkabout - mass migration resulting in hormonal changes?

Do u know how to breed long toed salamanders

Many people say many use the stars to navigate to breeding pools. Light, rains, water quality, and temperature are the main triggers I believe. I've heard of people breeding Marbled Salamanders, but that is easier because they don't need water to lay their eggs in, the eggs hatch once the other salamanders only start to breed, when the vernal pools fill.

Yellow Pine said:

Do u know how to breed long toed salamanders

Click to expand...

I've heard of these and A. gracile being bred in Europe before. although I cannot cite any sources, i get the impression that these two western species are a little easier to breed than those from the East. I also know of breeding success with Ambystoma annulatum in the UK, but that was done in outdoor inclousures.

I just finished reading an article regarding the captive breeding of A. annulatum in the U.K. right before finding this thread. Pretty cool and pretty ironic. I personally think captive outdoor enclosures are probably the best bet for breeding ambystoma species...Problem is most people probably don't have the space.

Not to change the topic completely but I was wondering if anyone else had specific information regarding the captive propogation of A. annulatum?

Where can one get hold of this article?
I know Henk Wallays regularly breeds Ambystoma macrodactylum (long-toed), and has bred tigers, but not sure which species.
There is also an old thread about CBing tigers in Japan.

Chris

Chris,

I just spent the last 15 minutes looking for the article in reference and couldn't find it, but swear it's out there. There is also a reference to it somewhere on this site (I think?).

I was under the impression it was a UK herp store or something? They had attempted to breed this species indoors for some time with no luck. They transfered them to an outdoor greenhouse enclosure and under natural cycling the animals produced several fertile clusters of eggs. One of the only specifics mentioned was that the pond/pool area was fed water through a pipe of sorts that was connected to an outside gutter...So rain water flowed into the system. Nothing elaborate except for having an outdoor enclosure really.