Bizarre recurring affliction in Ambystoma opacum

I have witnessed a very strange thing with my A. opacum for at least the second time. It happened a couple of months ago with one of my salamanders and two days ago with a different individual. It is possible that another one died of the same thing.
I check and feed the animals every couple of days, and just like the previous time, I found one strangely limp and sick looking. For the second time it seems like I managed to get the animal better just by removing it into a small tub with a damp paper towel for a couple of days.
It is very disturbing as the animals appear to be almost dead without any obvious signs of disease - no swelling or damage to skin...nothing. The salamander who has just recovered really seemed dead, after one day out of the terrarium I was almost getting ready to bury him. He had dull looking skin, closed eyes and didn't move the slightest bit. Next day he crawled out of the fold in the tissue, pooped (very normal looking), seemed a bit weak but now he's looking perfectly well. He even ate today.

I am keeping him out for observation for a few more days. I have changed the substrate so that I don't put him back into what may have caused this.
I can't think of anything that could be causing it, temperature wasn't too high (the other one was sick while it was cold), substrate is changed every 6 months or more often. I keep them on forest soil mixed with coco coir, with moss and cork hides. My other newts are kept the same way and never got sick. They also eat the same worms.

Has anyone experienced anything similar?

I've read about very similar symptoms called 'floppy newt syndrome' being associated with problems shedding. It doesn't sound like yours are having shedding trouble but it sounds familiar. It says specimines affected thus will be entirely flaccid and hardly respond when touched. some salamanders may recover when they are rid of there old skin and kept at 10-15c on damp towels.
I could well be barking up the wrong tree, but I thought I'd mention it as the symptoms are so close.

Thanks Ben, that's interesting. I haven't noticed any (attempts at) shedding with relation to this and apart from having a sick dull look with substrate stuck to it, the skin doesn't appear to have anything wrong with it. There is a possibility that they shed during their recovery but sadly there is no way of telling. Now that the salamander is well, he looks lovely and shiny again. It could be new skin I guess.

very interesting info chinadog thanks.:hat:

I had this affliction with a Captive Bred Tylototriton Taliangensis .The temperatures were 15C and the animal had been fine at these temperatures for 6months. The tub I had him in was wet kitchen roll miss and cork bark. I took advice from Jari Boerboom who told me to put the animal in a fresh setup at 20C and check back on the animal 24hours later.
The animal was active and healthy looking again after putting him like this,
After me believing the animal was close to death. I don't think this is the first time ive seen this unexpected flaccid condition . It has happened and the animal seems totally lifeless and looks dead . It is that strange affliction. I can only think the animals hydration was out of balance or something?,Humidity is an important vector I don't fully understand

This kept happening to the same animal (A. opacum), usually every couple of months. I improved ventilation which didn't help. Then I changed their substrate from a mix of soil and leaf litter collected in a forest and coco coir, giving them soil from a worm bin mixed with coco coir instead. The animal hasn't been sick since but that doesn't mean that it definitely was the substrate that was causing it.

I can only hope that it won't happen again. The last time the salamander got sick it was much worse than before and it took about five days instead of one or two before it got better. I was surprised it pulled through.

I think it might be something to do with the substrate because the "cure" which has worked so well is removing it from the terrarium and placing it on paper towels. Keeping the animal cooler while treated like this definitely seems to make it worse, which seems consistent with what mr cyclone is saying.

I find it very interesting that the condition has not recurred since the change in substrate source. Have you ever tested the pH of the current soil (soil pH meters are somewhat cheap), as I wonder if the worms alter the pH of their substrate in a positive way? I am sure there are other differences in the 2 types of substrate but pH came to mind right away....

Very interesting - thanks for the update Eva.

HJ

Sorry I haven't done any pH testing. Unfortunately the little guy died a few days ago. This time, whatever was wrong with him, looked different. I noticed a problem with his skin - it was dark, dull and wrinkled, very unhealthy looking. But the animal was still moving. When I finally got hold of his favourite type of worm and he refused it I knew something was very wrong. I separated him and a few days later, still looking the same, he got some sort of seizure and became paralyzed again. He never recovered. The remaining animals are looking fine and are feeding well. I really wish someone could shed some light on this.

evut said:

Sorry I haven't done any pH testing. Unfortunately the little guy died a few days ago. This time, whatever was wrong with him, looked different. I noticed a problem with his skin - it was dark, dull and wrinkled, very unhealthy looking. But the animal was still moving. When I finally got hold of his favourite type of worm and he refused it I knew something was very wrong. I separated him and a few days later, still looking the same, he got some sort of seizure and became paralyzed again. He never recovered. The remaining animals are looking fine and are feeding well. I really wish someone could shed some light on this.

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Hello,

Sorry to hear about your salamander.

The only way you're going to get more information is get some diagnostics done. I would advise getting either an ill animal to the vet for possible diagnostics, or if one dies getting a post-mortem examination done. Without those you are very unlikely to get any sort of answer I'm afraid.

Hope this helps.

hi folks
i have a similar issue with female which lasted 8 days.
as per chinadog advice, yes it is a shedding issue.
i soak her in Furan-2 cool solution 10C for 15 mins a day without knowing whats the issue for 8 days as. i thought she was sick.
she also refused to eat any earthworms and i have to give her pin-head crickets which i think she ate some.
today she shed and look normal again. very strange symptoms indeed.
hope somebody can advice more info on this topic.
thanks

Chinadog said:

I've read about very similar symptoms called 'floppy newt syndrome' being associated with problems shedding. It doesn't sound like yours are having shedding trouble but it sounds familiar. It says specimines affected thus will be entirely flaccid and hardly respond when touched. some salamanders may recover when they are rid of there old skin and kept at 10-15c on damp towels.
I could well be barking up the wrong tree, but I thought I'd mention it as the symptoms are so close.

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