"Echinotriton chinhaiensis"(sold as in herp shop)

Photo not mine but used with permission. Will credit later for certain reasons
I suspect more of these will be showing up on the Japanese market now that E.andersoni has become protected.

Great species account here:

http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/amphib_query?where-genus=Echinotriton&where-species=chinhaiensis

More info here:

http://www2.open.ac.uk/biology/froglog/FROGLOG-47-2.html

Nice pics here:

http://www.rieo.net/amph/saramand/imori/ibo/chin.htm

http://mitglied.lycos.de/caudata/10/_Echinotriton%20chinhaiensis.html

(Message edited by TJ on June 03, 2003)

Hi Tim, I hope you are wrong about E.chinhaiensis
showing up in the Japanese market or any market that is. They are highly endangered and totally protected by the chinese government. I will admit some probably due slip through the cracks for the high price I'm sure they fetch in Japan and other markets abroad. Mr. Feng Xie has been doing ecological research on them for some time and has been monitoring a steady decline ( less than 70 females with nests in 2003)in the population. This may not sound low for one population but you must consider there is now thought to be only one population reproducing viable young. The other populations have had the breeding ponds and habitat destroyed by nearby farms using pesticiedes, cleaners ect... Mr. Xie estimates that there are only 150-300 individual E.chinhaiensis left in the wild. On a good note, they have been successful in captive breeding the species. Several researchers in North America and abroad are currently raising funds for Mr. Xie's research and to intiate cb programs in some local ZOO's in North America to increse the genetic diversity of the cb lineages be fore it's to late. We do not want another golden toad "bufo periglenes" incident.
It is possible that T.asperrimus are being imported as E.chinhaiensis as well and the ones being sold are misidentified. I must add, Tim keep up the great work on the forum, I greatly enjoy your pics and info!!!!
Craig

I once had an interesting discussion at the bar in Gersfeld with Max Sparreboom concerning Echinotriton. As he has worked with Feng Xie, he's familiar with the situation on the ground. I must admit that I got the impression that it's only a matter of a handful of years before E. chinhaiensis is extinct in the wild. On the bright side, they seem to know how to breed Echinotriton quite "easily". I hope they succeed in their efforts.

From a hobbyist's point of view and someone whose favourite genus is Tylototriton, I would rather get my hands on T. asperrimus than either Echinotriton species .

Keep it up Tim!

Hi Craig. Very interesting info you provided there, all of which I was completely unaware of (having not yet even read the info in the links I listed there). Actually, I didn't want to identify the source of the pic until the newt's sold as I wouldn't want to be even indirectly involved in promoting its sale. Yes, it might indeed be T.asperrimus misidentified and sold as E.chinhaiensis. Only 150-300 left in the wild doesn't sound at all like a sustainable population! Here's wishing Mr. Feng Xie great success in his endeavor!

It could be T. asperrimus but it looks to be in bad condition if it is.

Speaking of dwindling Chinese sals, I can only imagine how many must inhabit areas along the Yangtze River, but now that the Three Gorges reservoir has started to fill, those in the (587-kilometer-long!) area in question are surely doomed. Perhaps we should have organized a rescue expedition....one of those rare occasions when massive collection from the wild could perhaps be justified

Hey Tim,
I definitely agree. I actually heard about the large scale systematic moving of amphibian populations along the Yangtze River, can't give you any hard facts on this one, though. Maybe just rumours.
I guess you are one of us who is closest to Three Gorges, so why not take a couple of days off, grab the old net, a couple of lunch boxes and off you go.
Let me know where you are and maybe I'll join you. You'll bring the beverages and I'll supply the snacks. Just give me a couple of weeks to cross the Ural mountains and Siberia, ha, ha, ha.

Ralf

Heya Ralf,
I can just imagine us caudata.orgs out there with our nets, feverously trying to save the world (at least part of it), and the bewildered locals gathering around. looking at us as if we are out of our minds!

According to China's environmental impact assessment:

Totally 369 species of vertebrate have been found in the area, including 85 mammals, 237 birds, 27 reptiles and 20 amphibians...

(It didn't say what they were but the Chinese giant salamander seems to be among them)

"Along with the rising up of the reservoir storage level after completion, the living environment of the terrestrial vertebrates, especially for the type adapted to farmland, brushes and grassland, will be affected. As a result, the number of amphibian reptiles will be decreased at the early stage of impoundment but
might be increased later."

Hmmmm.....

That truely is sad. I just wish that there was something we could do to help protect these magnificent creatures. They may be wiping out entire species and we just sit here and hear about it. Hopefully, there were some species moved.

~Aaron

I was wondering now that E. andersoni has been protected, how Japanese officals will be able to determine wether an animal was collected before or after the law was passed? If it is still legal to sell them than I am shure there will be just as many(if not more) animals for sale because they are going to become even more desireable now that they are protected.
I may not be up to date on the regulations but I was just curious what E. andersoni's status was and such.
Thanks,
Travis

My understanding is that the regulation in question is a local prefectural one disallowing collection of this species. Sure, people who really want them would still be able to acquire them one or way or another, but they surely won't be appearing in large numbers through the usual retail routes as in the past...well, hopefully not!

Regarding the newt pictured above, a newt being sold as Echinotriton wenxianensis also appeared on the market here around the same time, so that may be what it is...