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Fire-Belly & Sword-Tail Newts (Cynops & Hypselotriton) Perhaps the most famous and frequently bred newts in captivity, the fire-bellied newts and sword-tail newts are well known throughout the world as being excellent, gregarious captives.


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Old 22nd September 2005   #1
erik
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I'm 99% sure these are orphicus, though it seems too hard to believe. They meet most of Risch's characteristics, but there are a few I still need to check. I'll get better pics/info once they settle in.

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 22nd September 2005   #2
ralf
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Thanks for sharing these, Erik.



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Old 23rd September 2005   #3
jennifer
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Wow, that would be quite a find!



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Old 23rd September 2005   #4
joseph
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Do you have any idea of where they came from?



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Old 23rd September 2005   #5
paul
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Hi Erik,
here the information, David Wake wrote me to this species:
"Cynops orphicus is poorly known but we have a large series in this museum, obtained in the 1930's. The largest specimen was 64.4 mm snout to vent with a 51.5 mm tail (female). The largest male is 50.6 mm snout to vent with a 36.1 mm tail. Mean size of females is 53.3 mm Snout to vent, of males is 46.4 mm."
Paul



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Old 23rd September 2005   #6
william
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wow!...


...i feel a debate coming on...



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Old 23rd September 2005   #7
ralf
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Erik, do you have the original description by RISCH (1983)? I don’t, but I can offer the French translation by THORN & RAFFAELLI.

Here’s what CHAN et al. (2001) have to say about major morphological differences between the four recognized species groups within Cynops.

There are osteological differences among the species of Cynops, which can be divided into four groups based on two main characteristics: the length of the premaxilla, and the degree of contact of the nasals. Cynops orphicus is the only species in our sample with a long frontal process of the premaxilla and with nasals widely separated as in Paramesotriton and Pachytriton. In Cynops cyanurus and Cynops wolterstorffi, the frontal process of the premaxilla is long and the nasals almost or narrowly contact one another. The nasals of Cynops orientalis almost or narrowly contact one another as well, but the frontal process of the premaxilla is short rather than long.

Can we get some more pictures, especially top-view (cranial) of the head?

CHAN, L.M., ZAMUDIO, K.R. & WAKE, D.B. (2001): Relationships of the Salamandrid Genera Paramesotriton, Pachytriton, and Cynops based on Mitochondrial DNA Sequences.
Copeia, 2001 (4) pp 997-1009

RISCH, J.P. (1983): Cynops orphicus, a new salamander from Guangdong prov, South China (Amphibia, Caudata, Salamandridae).
Alytes, 1983, 2 (2). pp 45-52

THORN, R. & RAFFAELLI, J. (2001): LES SALAMANDRES DE L'ANCIEN MONDE
SOCIETE NOUVELLE DES EDITIONS BOUBEE 9, rue de Savoie - 75006 PARIS p 449



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Old 23rd September 2005   #8
nate
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IMHO, it's orphicus or a new species closely related to orphicus. The ventral pattern agrees with Risch and the AmphibiaWeb photos for the most part, and that head looks quite distinctive.

I bet some top-view head photos will show it clearly, but that looks to be a very long snout.



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Old 23rd September 2005   #9
william
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it's not exactly scientific, but the shape of the face looks different to orientalis in the last photo, more bull dog like. how many have you got?



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Old 23rd September 2005   #10
erik
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I am working on getting info on the general area they came from. I have 6 but 2 are going to another person on this board. So far I am not positive on the sex ratio of the group.

Yeah I have the paper by Risch and most of the features match, I just haven't had time to go through each characteristic point by point. The head shape is more like Paramesotriton than other Cynops and the canthus rostralis is well developed. Ventral pattern on all 6 matches as
well.

More pics to come, please bear with me as I am very busy right now and It hasn't been easy to get good pics as they are scared of the flash.

Thanks for all the inputClick the image to open in full size.



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Old 23rd September 2005   #11
paul
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Someone interested in:
RISCH, J.P. (1983): Cynops orphicus, a new salamander from Guangdong prov, South China

I can scan and send the paper!

@Erik, thanks for sharing this photos. Hope to see more and hope you breed them.

Paul



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Old 23rd September 2005   #12
danny
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Forgive me for asking, but where does this species originate from? Very distinct colours on these!



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Old 24th September 2005   #13
william
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Dayang, Shantou Region, Guangdong provinces

but i think the range is now limited to only one of those now, i don't know which one, but i think it's Dayang.



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Old 24th September 2005   #14
Tim Johnson
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As far as I know, the location description for this species is meant to say Dayang town in the "Shantou Region" of Guangdong Province -- Dayang being a highland resort area of sorts located in the hills of Jiexi County in the prefecture-level city of Jieyang in the northeastern part of the province.

According to the Global Amphibian Assessment:
<font color="0000ff">"This species is known only from Jiexi County in northeastern Guangdong, China, above 600m asl."</font>
source: http://www.globalamphibians.org/servlet/GAA?searchName=Cynops+orphicus

Here's the map that's provided there (to orient yourself, that's Hong Kong sectioned off in the lower left):

Click the image to open in full size.
Source: IUCN, Conservation International, and NatureServe. 2004.
Global Amphibian Assessment. <www.globalamphibians.org>.
Accessed on 24 September 2005.
<font size="-2">"Reproduction of charts and figures for educational or other non-commercial purposes is authorized without prior written permission from the copyright holders provided the source is fully acknowledged."</font>

Here's some related info:

Ecoregions containing Dayang Newt, Cynops orphicus
http://www.worldwildlife.org/wildfin...speciesID=4630

IUCN Red Book listing for Cynops orphicus: <u>endangered</u>
http://www.redlist.org/search/details.php?species=59443

(Message edited by TJ on September 24, 2005)



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Old 24th September 2005   #15
ralf
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Yes Paul,
please send me a copy of RISCH's article.



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Old 24th September 2005   #16
Tim Johnson
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Paul, I'll take one too !

Erik, looking forward to those pics Click the image to open in full size. (front view of snout in particular)
Good luck with breeding them.



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Old 25th September 2005   #17
paul
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Ralf, Tim, you find a copy of RISCH's article on literature link of Cynops Register now!

Paul



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Old 25th September 2005   #18
kamil
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Hey,

I've seen such looking animals once in a tank together with some orientalis. Is this possible?

Best Greetings,

Kamil



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Old 26th September 2005   #19
mattias
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I saw animals looking like yours in a small tank with muddy water on a fair the 27:th of august in Sweden.

Unfortunately I did not think more about it since there were a group of Hynobius tokyoensis next to them that caught my attention.

I just thought "oddly coloured backs of those orientalis" and went on. It never came to my mind that it could be something else as it never is in Sweden, the salamander-hobbyists desert.

Could they come from the same shipment to Europe?

They were not expensive and probably ended up in some family aquarium meeting the same kind of death as so many urodeles do. A shame I didn´t obtain them...

Mattias



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Old 26th September 2005   #20
erik
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Click the image to open in full size.

Another pic



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