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Axolotl Eggs, Larvae & Breeding Eggs everywhere, how did that happen? Will it be albino or wildtype?

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Old 17th July 2008   #1
darkmessiah
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Default Eggs and hatching.

Hi there,
My two axies recently reproduced with what looks like a hundred or so eggs having been laid in my tank. The two axies have been removed temporarily from the tank and are now separate.

I've got a heater in there to bring the temperature to just below 20 degrees Celsius. There is also a small filter from before. It's been about 5 days and the development seems fine so far according to the axolotl.org pictures.

I've got a few questions now however,
Do I need an air pump and air stone in the tank? To aerate the water?
Also, is it alright to feed the new-borns just brine shrimp? My local stores only have the following live foods avaliable: brine shrimp, black worms and blood worms. From what I've read on axolotl.org, black worms and blood worms are not listed as food for new-borns. So my only option really is bring shrimp. So far, I'm not really in any real position to culture my own food either. So "newly-hatched bring shrimp" is probably not gonna be a real option for me. Would it be alright if the brine shrimp were of medium sized, which is what I usually get from the stores?

Thanks in advance.



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Old 18th July 2008   #2
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

If you turn off the heater you will slow but not stop development and buy a couple more days to sort out food. Slowing the speed of development will also cut oxygen requirements. You could also hedge your bets by putting some of the eggs in the fridge, it is important not to chill eggs immediately they are laid but once they are developing they can be cooled.

I've not bred axolotls yet but I understand medium sized brine shrimp are too large. Most people on the site seem to set up brine shrimp hatcheries. Judging by your flag you may not have a great choice of suppliers. Are there any ponds locally you can use to tide you over or start a daphnia culture?

See http://caudata.org/daphnia/ for information on culture.



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Old 21st July 2008   #3
darkmessiah
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

I visited the local stores.
They said I may be able to use frozen brine shrimp. I've already got blocks of that. Would it be alright to feed the new-borns frozen brine shrimp when they hatch?
They also have frozen daphnia, can I use that as well? Or does it have to be alive?

Thanks.



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Old 21st July 2008   #4
Daniel
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

The only frozen brine shrimp I know are not the very small nauplia, but grown brine shrimp. Nauplia would be okay, but the bigger ones not.
It is possible to raise larvae with tiny frozen food (cyclops would be the choice then since most frozen daphnia are to big, too) but this is much more complicated that using life food.

It is really easy to have a little brine shrimp hatchery, all you need is a bottle with a small airstone/tube or even a small bowl would do (passive aeration).

And another point: I'd suggest that you remove the eggs from the parents tank and put them in a small tank or glasses without any substrate for the freshly hatched larvae will have to be surrounded by moving food. They do not go hunting in the beginning, they just snap on moving things that pass by.



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Old 21st July 2008   #5
Phil
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

Congratulations - I suggest you only keep 20-30 eggs (too many and it becomes a problem feeding them all - esp for your first time), put some daphnia in your hatching tank/tub (hatchlings will only eat live food). ...if you have a pond you can get daphnia from there.

I use an under bed storage container (clear plastic thing, you can get them from wilkos for about 5.00), they're approx 2ft x 1ft x 6inch.

I don't use any pumps etc. when I raise them - just plenty of plants (pond weed) and a part water change every week.

Everyone raises them a little differently, but have a read of www.axolotl.org and search some of the forum posts - there have been some great tips posted.

Have fun. Cheers, Phil



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Old 22nd July 2008   #6
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

I've already made plans to give away many of the offspring to a number of other aquatic enthusiasts.

So far, my options for food seem to be hatched brine shrimp (working on getting a hatchery going) and chopped up black worms and blood worms, which I read I can use in this article. http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/microfoods.shtml

About shifting the eggs out of the tank, would it be alright to keep it in the current tank? It seems I've got not other tanks/containers/areas where I can perhaps move the eggs to.



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Old 22nd July 2008   #7
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

New hatchlings need live food because they cannot smell or see well enough to hunt for anything, and rely on movement to find their food. Can you find Daphnia? These are also excellent, particularly because they are also freshwater creatures (unlike brine shrimp, as the name implies). Daphnia are also easy to raise at home, and are commonly available at pet and aquarium shops. In addition to the link on raising Daphnia provided in the Microfoods article you mentioned, you can find many threads with real-life info in the forum: http://www.caudata.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=12

If you leave the eggs in the main aquarium, the parents will probably eat most of them - they will certainly eat the larvae. I left my eggs in the main aquarium for the same reason (lack of space). The parents did not eat the eggs. Once the larvae hatched, I used a turkey baster to catch them. I then raised them in nursery nets that hung around the side of the main tank (see here for a picture: http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthr...322#post158322 ).

Good luck,

-Eva



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Old 22nd July 2008   #8
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueberlin View Post
I then raised them in nursery nets that hung around the side of the main tank
That's a good idea Eva - I might try that myself. Cheers, Phil



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Old 22nd July 2008   #9
darkmessiah
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

Concerning daphnia, I'm unable to obtain live ones. Only frozen.

The adults were removed from the tank about a week ago, so the offspring are safe in that respect.

Concerning frozen foods, I read here about frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms being used.
http://www.axolotl.org/faq.htm#37



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Old 22nd July 2008   #10
Eva
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

New hatchlings will not be able to recognize food that is not alive. They will first start doing this when they have legs (mine took even longer). Ok, I have read one or maybe two people, out of the thousands of posts here, who were able to feed frozen foods to larvae using a tweezers, but I have no experience with this or its practicability.

It will be difficult to feed larvae in a large aquarium as they need to be literally "swimming in food" for the first couple of weeks - again, because they cannot hunt. It will be fine for the eggs to remain there, though, until they hatch. You can catch the larvae after that and move them to smaller and thus more convenient housing.

You should be able to find starter daphnia on the internet for online order. Otherwise, artemia is definitely the best way to go. Even live bloodworms will be too large for new larvae - the larvae are less than a centimeter long when they first hatch.

-Eva



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Old 24th July 2008   #11
darkmessiah
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

Alright, I've got a few food options in the process of being sorted out.
One of them is the brine shrimp eggs. Getting a hatchery sorted out and I'm wondering, how long does it take for the brine shrimp to start hatching after everything is in? The reason I ask is, I don't want to start the hatchery right away and end up with a bunch of dead shrimp as the axo eggs haven't hatched themselves. So I suppose I would have to time it and start hatching the brine shrimp towards when the axo eggs start hatching themselves, right?

The second thing on my mind now is concerning the substrate and the eggs. Prior to this unexpected laying of eggs, there was "junk" on the bottom of the tank. This includes bits of uneaten food and axo poop. This is something that just happens, but it was never a problem because I'd do periodic water changes with the siphon; therefore, sucking up all the mess on the bottom.
But now, it appears that the little bits are attached in and around the eggs. I'm unable to siphon the substrate as this would result in sucking up the eggs. Will this in anyway effect the eggs?

On a side note about the tank, I've decided that I wish to raise the young in the main tank I have, but without the substrate (bare-bottom). Should I wait for the young to hatch before removing the substrate, or can I somehow remove the substrate (and effectively removing the poop/food in the process) without harming the eggs?

Thank you for all the help so far guys! I appreciate it!



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Old 24th July 2008   #12
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

I didn't culture artemia so I can't answer the first question, but there are many threads about it in this forum section if you search for "feeding larvae" or "artemia", etc. Or someone else will come along and provide a quick answer.

The muck stuck to the eggs will not bother them at all. Just looks nasty.

I would wait for the larvae to hatch and then collect them to a holding container, and then change the substrate. While the eggs are fairly robust, it is better to leave them in peace if you can. Remember Nemo!

-Eva



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Old 10th August 2008   #13
darkmessiah
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

Hello again,

I post again with great worries about the eggs that were previously mentioned in my original post of this thread.
It has since been a month when the eggs were first laid, yet they have not developed. In this time span, the eggs have pretty much remained as they were when they were first laid. From what I can see, there seems to be very little development in these eggs.
I've kept the eggs for most part at a temperature just below 20. They were at one stage at a temperature of approx 15 degrees for a week or so.

Will these eggs ever hatch? Or are they lost now? I fret due to what appears to be very little development.



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Old 10th August 2008   #14
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

If they're not changing shape, they're probably duds, or have died in egg. Most eggs will noticeably change shape within a week.



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Old 13th August 2008   #15
darkmessiah
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

That is most unfortunate to hear.
I had been looking forward to raising young.
If they're all duds or dead, how would I make sure? Do I just "dispose" of them now?



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Old 13th August 2008   #16
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

If after a month, they don't look like little axolotls in the egg, they're duds. Axolotls that are near hatching will also move frequently in the egg.

They can just be thrown away.



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Old 14th August 2008   #17
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

It's unfortunate to hear, but thanks for the information.
I appreciate it.



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Old 14th August 2008   #18
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Default Re: Eggs and hatching.

It happens for many reasons. Sometimes the eggs just aren't properly fertilized, and were never 'alive' to begin with.

Better luck next time.



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