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North American Newts (Notophthalmus & Taricha) While not closely related, these two genera are the true newts of North America.

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Old 23rd May 2005   #1
Janice
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I went to the pet shop today and asked 'why do think our newt is a California newt?' expecting her to spout some nonsense. She replied, 'There is a subtle difference. The California newt has an orange yellow eyelid.' Hm. So I submit close up pictures again for your scrutiny. If it is indeed a torosa, there are at least a dozen more for sale here.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

(Message edited by apples on May 24, 2005)



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Old 24th May 2005   #2
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The lower eyelid in this animal isn't lighter at all.

The photos in the caudata.org article at http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ta...T_torosa.shtml show the "lighter lower eyelid" (aka not as dark as brown on the back).

This identification trait often blurs in northern California T.t. torosas and it's not as good of an identifier.

Granulosas are often called "California newts" by petshops because they are collected in California.



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Old 24th May 2005   #3
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i do trust you but there is definite yellow around the eye. i will have to wait to get my new camera so i can zoom in properly without everything going blurry. doesn't matter all that much except if people want them, i suppose. you're just gonna have to come visit and look for yourself! LOL.



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Old 24th May 2005   #4
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Janice, the eye may be rimmed in yellow, but the lower eyelid is DEFINATELY dark. That's the area between the eye and the mouth. This is a granulosa.



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Old 24th May 2005   #5
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thanks yet again!



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Old 24th May 2005   #6
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i believe 99.9 % of those out there in the pet shops are granulosas. to collect a cali newt you need a fishing license and have a possession limit of 4, so i dont think they can be mass collected for the pet trade, more likely they are from washington, i also believe oregon has a restriction on collection...and here is the odd part, they are also commonly sold as 'oregon newts' ...and also 'orange belly newts' and 'rough skin newts', so you see the problem with common names. i personally believe that torosa and granulosa hybridize in regions where they overlap, i even was in a stream FULL of red bellies ("the other taricha") all the males were staked out about 1 per square foot-waiting for any female to come by-there was also a lone torosa in there with them, i have also seen a hybrid with a red belly -it didnt have black eyes. yours is a granulosa, the dark part goes all the way down to the chin-here are some shots of torosas -from an area where grans dont exist (so no chance of hybridization)
http://www.caudata.org/forum/message...tml?1100633104



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Old 24th May 2005   #7
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I support Paris.
All Tarichas in shop will be granulosa.
And to add, it is even for a knowledged one not easy to differenciate between the species without knowing the origin. Especially with a picture as above.
Best thing: breed them then you will see (singular eggs = granulosa)
Uwe



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