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Another floating axie!

bubblegumlove

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Following on from my last thread, bubblegums gills are fine, excellent infact.
however, i changed his water and took out substrate (large glass pebbles) and came home to him floating, arms out. he isn't bloated and he doesn't float on his side.
i poked him down to the bottom and he's staying there but moving about a fair bit and his back end is floating up. i got him to eat his blood worms all fine and he doesnt seem to have regurgitated them.
i'm waiting for my water test kit to arrive in the post, i'ts not going to be here for another 5 days so i don't know what the water parameters are like.
it;s also worth noting that the weather here has been a bit warmer so his water did go up to 20 degrees.
in the past i've used tap water and mineral water and i use a treatment and cleaner when i change the water.
i'm obviously seeing that he needs to be fridged but what can i do to his tank in the mean time to try and make it better for him until the test kit gets here and i can see what the matter is? HELP!
 

Petersgirl

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Don't worry, Bubblegumlove. He's a little constipated by the sounds of it. It might also be worth avoiding mineral water as it's quite soft. Treated tap water is absolutely fine :)

I wouldn't do anything with his tank water just yet, until you can test it. Your best bet is to look at this: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...ick-axolotl/85263-axolotl-fridging-guide.html which details all you need to know about fridging.

Hopefully this will allow Bubblegum to pass whatever is blocking up his insides. You can keep him in there as long as you want, as long as the temp is kept higher than 5 degrees and his water is changed daily (and of course, as long as he gets some food!)

Keep us posted on his progress and please post the test results when you find them out :)
 

bubblegumlove

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Thanks a lot Petersgirl, I put some ice in his tank and either that or feeding him again has already made him pretty much himself but i'll review in the morning and fridge him if need be, I've now gotten over the shock of being 99% he was dead and might actually be able to sleep!
And I'll keep you posted! :)
 

Alkylhalide

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I really wouldnt worry about it! This happens on a daily basis with 32axolotls lol at least one is like that daily.
He is orobably just constipated like state above. Unless he has some sort of impaction fridging him shouldnt be necessary unless this doesnt rectify itself in a day or two or if it gets worst fast.

Remember fridging is quite stressful on them as well, so it should be used when the stress of not fridging them is worst then the actual fridging.
Id just give it a couple days. If you want, putting him in a tuperware container with fresh dechlorinated water doing 100% daily water changes. Just enough water so he is fully submerged but not stressed out because he cant touch the bottom due to the floating may help him out. But fridging should be last resort

Edit: also since it is a little on the warmer side maybe put the tuperwarecontainer in a cooler part of your house. The closer to the floor the cooler the water is. And from one room to another can make a huge difference(my babies are in my room at 60F and my juveniles are in a tank in the living room and it is always about 68F
 

Petersgirl

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Thanks Alkylhalide, I haven't had to fridge Toothless yet so I wasn't sure of the particulars, I just knew that was considered de rigeur for constipation, and wasn't sure how long you should wait before considering fridging. You learn something new on this forum every day ;)

PS Bubblegumlove, glad to hear Bubblegum is getting better! Just be careful with ice or ice bottles - they do work, but you have to go easy to avoid putting your baby in shock or so I've read. You do live in a much warmer area though so it might not be as troublesome as it would be here in rainy and cold Cornwall!
Hope he continues to get better ^^
 

bubblegumlove

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the water kit arrived earlier than i thought.
the ph is 8, ammonia is 2, nitrite is 0.5 and nitrate...160
so there's quite a few problems there. what do i do about getting that nitrate down?! and is ammonia treatment for goldfish ok for my axie?
hes still a bit floaty but he's eating and his gills are still healthy and bright etc.
 

Alkylhalide

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With those readings i would want to take my axie out of it. Those numbers are quite high.and toxic to your axie. Regular water changes will get the levels down but till then it is pretty toxic. You want ammonia 0 nitrite 0 and nitrate under 40. Was your tank cycled or is it still cycling?

What are you using to test the water?
In my opinion i wouldnt want to use ammonia treatment in the water it turns ammonia into ammonium which is less toxic but the beneficial bacteria eat ammonia not ammonium so i dont see the benefit of using it. Its not really fixing the problem its just masking it. Frequent water changes(about 20%) will help dilute the levels.
 

bubblegumlove

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ok i will do that. i've had the tank 3 weeks and been changing it with bottled water (been advised that since on here), water through a brita filter and water out the tap but have only been treating it with this goldfish protect stuff. i had been using my net and washing it out in water that has a watersoftener so i think that's also where i've gone wrong.

i'm thinking of putting him in a small container with filtered water and then doing changes every other day to try get my tank to where it should be, does that sound like a good idea?

i'm using api fresh water master kit

this is awful, pet shops really don't tell you anything :(
 

Alkylhalide

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Its okay pets shops arent the best for information on axolotls. Ive just learned everything off here over the last little bit. And some things through trial and error and heart attacks and mistakes and research.

You dont want soft water so i would advise just to use tap water with a dechlorinator in it. They dont do well in soft water. Just keep him in a tub with fresh dechlorinated water doing 100% water changes daily an rinsing the container out. And just do small water changes in the tank.
Im guessing your tank is not cycled. Using ammonia removers will slow the process down. It took me 7weeks to cycle my tank. I didnt really know what i was doing at first and i was using fish so i needed to do frequent water changes which slows it down just to keep the levels diluted. It was a disaster but i think once i start cycling my 25gallon ill be okay :p
 

Petersgirl

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*Nodnod* Most Pet Shops, and regrettably, even LFS, don't know much about axolotls. They're considered 'Moderately' difficult to keep by the Aquarium/Reptile equivalent of Wikipedia - I think it's because their needs are so different from most fish and even reptiles and other amphibians. But the fact they're special is why we love them ;)

As far as I know Goldfish Protect is safe for Axolotls, I used it for weeks with no problems for Toothless - this was my own personal experience though. I know for sure Stress Coat + is safe as I discussed it with another owner who had actually spoken to the head of API, who confirmed it was axolotl-safe. As Alkylhalide has said, a cool, clean tub with dechlorinated tap water will do nicely for Bubblegum to chill in while your tank cycles. I also think your tank is currently mid-cycle, all of your parameters are much higher than they should be at the moment (as you've already figured out).

I was a little curious about Nitrates too, as they're less toxic than nitrites and ammonia, but I wondered what happens to nitrates once they're made. I found this information on About.com:

The significance of nitrates in the aquarium is arguably less understood by fish keepers than the effect of ammonia and nitrites. Although nitrates are not directly lethal in the way ammonia or nitrites are, over time high levels of nitrate have a negative effect on fish, plants and the aquarium environment in general.

Effect on Fish
Fish will feel the impact of nitrates by the time the levels reach 100 ppm, particularly if levels remain there. The resulting stress leaves the fish more susceptible to disease and inhibits their ability to reproduce.

High nitrate levels are especially harmful to fry and young fish, and will affect their growth. Furthermore, conditions that cause elevated nitrates often cause decreased oxygen levels, which further stress the fish.

Nitrates and Algae
Elevated nitrates are a significant contributor to undesirable algae growth. Nitrate levels as low as 10 ppm will promote algae growth. Algae blooms in newly setup tanks are usually due to elevated nitrate levels.

Although plants utilize nitrates, if nitrates rise faster than the plants can use them, the plants can become overgrown with algae, ultimately leading to their demise.

Where Do Nitrates Come From?
Nitrates are a by-product of nitrite conjugation during the latter stages of the nitrogen cycle, and will be present to some degree in all aquariums. Detritus, decaying plant material, dirty filters, over-feeding, and over-stocking the tank, all contribute to increased production of nitrates.

Water used to fill the aquarium often has nitrates in it. In the United States, drinking water may have nitrates as high as 40 ppm. Before adding water to your tank test, it for nitrates so you know if the levels are unusually high in your water source. If nitrates are above 10 ppm, you should consider other water sources that are free of nitrates.

Desired Level
In nature nitrates remain very low, generally well below 5 ppm. In freshwater aquariums nitrates should be kept below 50 pm at all times, preferably below 25 ppm. If you are breeding fish, or are battling algae growth, keep nitrates below 10 ppm.

How to Reduce Nitrates
Unlike ammonia and nitrites, the bacteria that remove nitrates do not like oxygen rich environments. Therefore, conventional filters do not harbor the bacteria that remove nitrates. Although special filters exist that will remove nitrates, such devices are usually expensive compared to other filtration units. However, there are some steps you can take to keep nitrates low.

  • Keep the tank clean – Waste ultimately produces nitrates. Cleaner tanks produce fewer nitrates in the first place.
  • Don’t overfeed the fish – Overfeeding is a significant contributor to excess nitrates and other undesirable wastes, such as phosphates.
  • Water changes – Performing regular water changes with water that has little or no nitrates will lower the overall nitrate level in the tank. RO/DI water is an excellent choice for keeping nitrate levels low. (Be aware that some water sources, in particular, water sources from parts of America, can contain as much as 40 ppm Nitrate. This is partially why dechlorinator and leaving 'Salamander Water' to stand is so important).
  • Keep live plantsLive plants utilize nitrates, and will help keep nitrates in check.
  • Use nitrogen removing filter media – Instead of an expensive denitrator or special filter, use special media in the filter you have. Although they will not lower nitrates dramatically, if used together with other methods the net result will be beneficial.

    Obviously Cycling your tank is the best bet but these are additional measures you could look into. Good luck!
 

bubblegumlove

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once again, thanks for your help, very informative, i really appreciate it! i didn't even know about cycling tanks so i've been reading up and think i've got the knowledge i need now. i'll keep you posted on our progress!
 

Alkylhalide

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Good luck :) keep us posted.
I find it strange you have such a high nitrate reading but havinf any kind of reading shows you are on the right track. Since it is at the end of the nitrogen cycle when you start getting those reading it means your biological filter is starting to settle. Because i mean you need beneficial bacteria in order for the ammonia to turn into nitrate :)

Keep doing what your doing but try to keep your axie out of such high levels and youll befine
 

Petersgirl

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Ooh, can I recommend Mini Water Lettuce and Java Moss if you want some live plants and if your nitrates are still high? They're real nitrate guzzlers, and axxie safe! :)
 

bubblegumlove

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Are not all plants axie safe then?! ive got my nitrate down to 80 but i realise this is still high. how long (ish) do plants take to make a difference and how can i tell if they're harmful?! i just got these ones from pets at home

935224_10151402472441724_510469127_n.jpg
 

Petersgirl

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Not all plants are axxie safe and a lot of them can't cope with the low light levels axxies need. Here's a list of the plants that aren't considered safe: 21 plants to avoid in the aquarium | Features | Practical Fishkeeping

What kind of plant do you have there? Do you remember what it was called? The main dangers with some plants is that they either die because they can't cope with the conditions your axxies need, or they aren't really aquatic in the first place. Plants should begin soaking up nitrates as soon as they are planted (i.e they take root, or those who don't root wrap around their 'anchor'). That's still quite a drop in nitrates, so don't be disheartened. It's fallen quite quickly!

Also, here are some favourite plants for axxies from the Axolotl Sanctuary:

Anubias Nana - great plant, virtually indestructible, hardy and low maintenance.
  • Anubias Isabelle - very tough, taller than the Nana.
  • Anubias Barteri - just like the Nana, but a bit bigger and with rounder leaves.
  • Java Fern - one of the toughest aquatic plants you can get - grows anywhere!
  • Java Moss - grows anywhere as well, can be made into a sort-of "carpet"
  • Lilaeopsis - this is like grass, you can make a beautiful lawn in your tank with it.
  • Eleocharis (Hairgrass) - same as with Lilaeopsis tends to be a bit taller though.
  • Pongol - this is actually Mondo Grass, so it's not a true aquatic but survives (doesn't grow, just survives) for ages submerged, not really recommended.
  • Congensis - quite striking for a centrepiece plant.
  • Riccia - Riccia generally needs a lot of light to grow properly, thus only suitable for brighter tanks.
  • Narrow Chain Sword - another grassy-type thing. Looks pretty, grows happily.

You can also get 'moss balls,' which I recommend heartily. They're small balls that you don't need to plant. They soak up nitrates too. Mine cost £4 in Pets At Home. Java Moss also grows really well and you can wrap it around anything - Toothless has it wrapped around her driftwood and her hide.
 

ayushmhr

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ok here you did a mistake by not waiting your cycle to complete. you shoulnot change a lot of water at onece. you could go for 10% water change at a time per week.
here learn about Aquarium nitrogen cycle first.
 
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